Possible to add a Stereo/Mono toggle switch on 2005 NiteFly SA?

[LedZeff]

Hello, I have a 2005 NiteFly SA and I love it. The only thing that I wish I could change is for it to have the Stereo/Mono switch found in the older models. Is this something possible to add and wire in? I browsed the wiring diagrams but honestly they are pretty confusing to my basic knowledge of guitar wiring, and lack of knowledge of the piezo system itself. I would appreciate some assistance and clarification with this, thank you!

#PiezoIssues

#SwitchReplacement

[mmmguitar]

@LedZeff, Your '05 SA doesn't have the stereo/mono switch because the Fishman Powerchip preamp used in Parker guitars by that point switches automatically, according to whether you have a stereo or mono cable plugged in. If your guitar doesn't do this, there's an internal issue to be addressed.

[LedZeff]

Ok that makes sense, I misunderstood the function of the switch. Thank you for the explanation. My preamp functions as it should. So it’s normal for the piezo pickups to be the only active ones once the battery runs out? I mistakenly thought that the toggle took the piezo circuit out and purely ran the magnetic pickups straight.

[mmmguitar]

@LedZeff, you're in good company to have assumed that to be the sensible function of the switch; and there is a mod to achieve what you want:

Per the Electronics and Wiring Guides thread, You can replace the mag/mix/piezo switch with a 4PDT on/on/on selector switch (such as the Dimarzio EP1111 or similar) and wire it so that the "magnetic pickup only" switch selection bypasses the preamp (very handy in the event the battery dies, or if you're like me in preferring the passive signal to the buffered one):

The diagram references the later Graphtech preamp wiring colors, but functionally bypasses whichever preamp happens to be under the hood. I'm happy to help in greater detail, should you decide to take on the project.

[LedZeff]

That looks to be exactly what I was looking for, thank you! Do you know why this wasn't standard wiring? Also, will this wiring prevent the battery drain while the cord is plugged in with the switch in passive position or not?

I coincidentally have this guitar in for a general service, (electronics are starting to act finicky after so many years), because I just don't want to deal with the Parker wiring LOL. I think I want to send this to my Tech and have him install this mod, it should be pretty straightforward for him as he is familiar with Parkers (has a gorgeous fly himself).

Are there any other details worth mentioning regarding this mod?

[mmmguitar]

Will this wiring prevent the battery drain while the cord is plugged in with the switch in passive position or not?

No: The switch is too early in the signal chain to affect the power draw (which is at the jack). The Powerchip preamp draws power once a 1/4” cable plug is inserted into the stereo jack and completes the power circuit by connecting the battery to ground. A straightforward mod to add a manual power switch is to splice in a SPST switch between that wire and where it connects to the jack. The Adrian Belew signature Fly had this for its sustainer circuit (which powers on the same way):

The reason the 4PDT switching mod wasn’t standard in Parkers is the same reason there are “prerefined” and “refined” eras of Fly production: misguided efforts to decrease overhead through cutting corners. In fact, the mag/mix/piezo selector switches used in the USM era of Fly production are just regular pickup selector switches which were modded to work by having their center leaf contacts bent (as detailed here), in lieu of purchasing inventory of the “correct” switch. Ostensibly, this was done for no reason other than to appease bean-counters through claiming that one component could be eliminated from the production budget (despite twice as many of the other switch needing to be accounted for ).

I blame this general corner-cutting approach in the factory for why mag/mix/piezo switch signal bleed and general bottom-shelf component failure is so common in Parkers built from 2003-onward.

[LedZeff]

@mmmguitar Just ordered an EP1111 off of ebay, thanks again for the advice. Looking forward to getting this mod done.

That is such a small cost savings for a relatively large downside. Misguided is a very good word to use to describe it, I agree.

[LedZeff]

@LedZeff, you're in good company to have assumed that to be the sensible function of the switch; and there is a mod to achieve what you want:

Per the Electronics and Wiring Guides thread, You can replace the mag/mix/piezo switch with a 4PDT on/on/on selector switch (such as the Dimarzio EP1111 or similar) and wire it so that the "magnetic pickup only" switch selection bypasses the preamp (very handy in the event the battery dies, or if you're like me in preferring the passive signal to the buffered one):


A62EE915-5866-4A70-9031-E686E4C8556E.jpeg


The diagram references the later Graphtech preamp wiring colors, but functionally bypasses whichever preamp happens to be under the hood. I'm happy to help in greater detail, should you decide to take on the project.

@mmmguitar I was hoping you could help me out with this mod. I have provided the correct switch to my tech. My Nitefly still has the original fishman preamp, how would this diagram change with that? My tech said basically he doesn't know which wires correspond with what when comparing the two preamps (original fishman vs graphtech the diagram references). I'm assuming most of the diagram will remain the same when using the fishman preamp? I thought he mentioned the graphtech preamp having an extra wire or something? I could be mistaken. I have no doubt given time he could figure it out, but his time is expensive LOL. Thank you for your help!

[mmmguitar]

@LedZeff

[LedZeff]

@mmmguitar yes I believe it is. I have a picture from when it was open the last time. Thank you!

[mmmguitar]

@LedZeff, I updated the above post to flaunt my Windows 95 MSPaint skills, and incorporated the wire colors from your photo. Due to the black tubing around the wires outputting from the Powerchip to the jack, I worked with the assumption that they use the red/white/shield scheme. Let me know if any revisions are needed - This was conjured by my fallible brain. Your tech is correct about the Graph Tech preamp using an extra wire (for the buffered mag pickup signal selection).

[LedZeff]

@LedZeff, I updated the above post to flaunt my Windows 95 MSPaint skills, and incorporated the wire colors from your photo. Due to the black tubing around the wires outputting from the Powerchip to the jack, I worked with the assumption that they use the red/white/shield scheme. Let me know if any revisions are needed - This was conjured by my fallible brain. Your tech is correct about the Graphtech preamp using an extra wire (for the buffered mag pickup signal selection).

Thank you that looks great @mmmguitar. I’m a bit confused about the white wire though. Is that the piezo output? If so, should it not be on the bottom lug in that column? I could also be mistaken… it’s my first time really looking at the wiring.

[mmmguitar]

I’m a bit confused about the white wire though. Is that the piezo output?

Short answer: It's the white wire from your mag/mix/piezo switch; which gets sent to ground, and not the jack. Your piezo output wire is bundled with the other two in the black jacket and remains where it is; going from the preamp to its lug on the output jack.

Overly detailed answer:

In that photo of your pickguard, there are five wires (three carrying signal and two going to ground) soldered to the three contacts of the mag/mix/piezo switch; and they all get transferred over to the new switch. The white wire in the photo which runs from the right-most lug of the mag/mix/piezo switch to the Powerchip is the one depicted in my diagram. In this factory diagram, that same wire is labeled "yellow" (color designations are never really standardized anywhere other than pickup manufacturers).

Let's elaborate on the signal path: That wire is one of two piezo signal wires outputted by the Powerchip: The second one is in that black bundle of three wires going to the jack.

The Powerchip's switching signal path seems to work this way: The mag pickup signal from the volume pot passes through a grounding switch on its way to the preamp. The piezo signal wire is soldered to the input of the preamp, but has another wire taking it to the same grounding switch. The Powerchip itself constantly outputs the buffered mag and piezo signals in parallel paths to the stereo jack, and these signals either stay separated (if a stereo plug is inserted into the jack) or are summed in parallel (if a mono plug is used). The mag/mix/piezo switch works by determining whether either of the signals gets diverted to ground (functionally the same as turning the mag or piezo volume pots down to zero).

Because the new switch has twelve contacts instead of three, we're utilizing nine of them to give us an extra signal path in which the magnetic signal bypasses the preamp. The other two signal paths work the same as they did on the original switch; via using the switch to ground out either the mag signal or the piezo signal. You actually only need to use eight of the switch contacts for this - I put the two green ground wires on the edge of the switch so I'd have room to label them .

Let me know if you have other questions, want me to circle or highlight stuff in the photo, etc. This is an info resource site, after all.

[LedZeff]

@mmmguitar That makes so much more sense. I didn't realize the switch did so much of the heavy lifting, it makes sense that the preamp would just mix incoming signals and constantly send. I learned so much on this little project thanks to you and this site. Hopefully there will be no more snags.

You actually only need to use eight of the switch contacts for this - I put the two green ground wires on the edge of the switch so I'd have room to label them .

LOL. I love that.

One more question, My tech said that the wiring is designed so when the 5 way is in the 2 position, the humbucker is split. I see in the factory diagram that there is a wire coming off of each coil. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around how the switch grounds the one coil or takes away the S coil from the circuit in position 2 without actually being able to look at the/any 5 way switch in my hand at the moment, and I can't seem to find a diagram that works for me online right now. Can you briefly explain or circle in my picture which posts are active in position 1 (B) vs position 2 (B+M)?

[mmmguitar]

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around how the switch grounds the one coil or takes away the S coil from the circuit in position 2

If you scroll down this page from Seymour Duncan's site, it has illustrations of which contacts connect in the various switch position. Disclaimer: Not all 2 pole 5 way switches are laid out the same; and the one in your guitar may actually differ in one way or another.

Concerning yours, I've circled the pertinent connections below:

I'm going to use the term "signal" for this illustration - Even though an electrical current path is more akin to trying to direct water.

The yellow circles are each end of the wire the "common" switch lug is using to output signal to the input of the volume pot. A common is essentially a junction point we can use to direct signal flow on to the next component.

The bridge pickup's connections to the switch are circled in red: The white and black wires soldered to one lug are the series connection for the humbucker's two coils, with the red wire being the main signal wire for the humbucker (I'll just call it "hot" for short).

The blue circles are the hot wires for the single coils.

The black circles are each end of the wire the switch is using to send signal to ground.

The crucial illustration here is the white boxes I've drawn to show how a two pole switch works: Think of each box as its own selector switch; with each side outputting its own signal via a "common" lug that the other lugs on that side connect to.

On the one pole, we have the hot wires for our three pickups and the common which outputs them to the volume pot.

On the other pole, we have only the bridge humbucker's series connection wires and the wire that goes to ground. Where that ground wire is soldered, on that portion of the switch, is actually the common for that pole. So what we have is one switch that determines which signal gets sent to the volume pot, and the second switch chooses which position sends the humbucker's series connection to ground.

I linked you to the Seymour Duncan page because I don't have your switch in front of me to demonstrate this with a multimeter that will beep when these lugs are connected:

In position 2, one pole of the switch is connecting the yellow, red, and blue circles next to each other; which achieves passing the combined signals of the red and blue circles to the volume pot via the yellow circle. At the same time, the other pole of the switch is connecting the series connection (red circle) to ground (black circle) - Effectively shutting off the signal from one of the humbucker coils from further up in the signal path. The consequence is that, now, the signal being sent down the red humbucker "hot" wire consists of only one coil, rather than two - Because we've used the other pole of the switch to disconnect the humbucker's coils.

Were there any different pickup switching options you'd like to achieve?