When Buying Used Flys:
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 2:19 am
[Taken from an old thread this post was buried in]
2023 Update: Buyers, DO YOUR RESEARCH and check sold listings to determine whether that single available listing for whichever particular Fly is tempting you is in fact priced fairly for its condition, its included accessories, whether any subsequent repairs needed range from minor to specialist (often considered "unfixable" for most budgets), or is just flat-out seeking to exploit your yearning. Also check to be sure you're not about to purchase a cloned listing by a zero feedback seller who is actually a scammer. By summer 2023, this has sadly become common practice on Reverb and eBay. Caveat Emptor!
There are fewer Flys for sale at a time these days - but it's often the same ones being passed around, parted out, and upsold by the same two or three guys. Chances are, the guitar you're looking at was previously resold for a much lower amount and with necessary included accessories now being omitted. I suggest you look up the previous listing(s) for the instrument and message these sellers with a link to them, asking what's so special about them that their owning the guitar for two months has increased its value so much, despite reselling the guitar without its springs*, hardshell case, "bullwinkle" hanger, or other factory accessories that should serve to depreciate its value more than implied scarcity would have over the past few weeks since the guitar was last sold. Though you're unlikely to receive a polite response, these wannabe Ed Romans aren't going to get the hint until prospective buyers start letting them know that that they're informed buyers; willing to pass on a gouging.
These guitars being exclusive to the used market means that pitfalls are the name of the game. The combination of having no warranty on defects in the proprietary tech, effectively no replacement parts, no looking back for modifications, and a volatile market value undermining one’s sense of investment should rightfully cause concern for a current or prospective Fly owner. There are no two ways about it: The impetus is entirely on the buyer to know what they’re getting, what they’ve gotten, and what they can get.
If you lack firsthand knowledge or a community resource such as this one or the Facebook group(s) to vet Fly listings with, you are likely taking unnecessary risks:
I’ve observed and interacted with unfortunate buyers who have purchased prerefined Flys with malfunctioning (or entirely nonfunctioning) piezos or controls, refined Flys with forward-leaning or otherwise malfunctioning trems, refined Flys with poorly reglued frets and fretboards, Flys with partially-lifted frets or lifting fretboards that exhibit paint chipping as a symptom, prerefined Flys with ebony fretboards, Flys with broken or even missing springs, crude repair of broken spring damage (bondo, nail polish, uneven touch-up, etc.), broken piano strings in pre-refined Flys (many owners remain unaware of the nature of their truss rod to this day), Flys with frozen pots, ill-fitting replacement knobs misrepresented as original, missing trem bushings and set screws, missing step-stop, missing spring tension wheel, etc.
An extreme example was a buyer who, having purchased an unfinished poplar Fly body and basswood neck on eBay following the Buffalo Grove factory closure, believed me to be trolling (and subsequently blocked me from sending further PMs) after I typed up a guide to aid him in completing the guitar which included a pizza oven. Last I’d heard, he had abandoned the project.
Note that these are details the sellers themselves are often unaware of. Two of my Flys were previously owned by self-described “Parker enthusiasts” who were simply clueless as how close to disaster their guitars were:
One Fly had spent years in “dive-only” mode with a set of 13-56 strings paired with a 9-spring, and no truss adjustments. The strings sat on top of the nut slots cut for a 9-42 set, and the neck bowed significantly. These were issues I discovered upon receiving the guitar - The seller hadn’t used the trem since switching to heavier strings, and maintained that the guitar “doesn’t have a truss rod; due to being plastic.”
The other guitar was a spaghetti factory of wiring modification far above the skill of a previous owner (who had spliced PTP wiring into the broken ribbon assembly while “grounding” every switch and circuit of the guitar to a single piece of electrical tape which, itself, was glued to a loose metal washer). The guitar had changed hands several times between players who could only tell that something was “off” about the circuitry.
So, when checking out a listing for a used Fly, be sure to message the seller and inquire as to any essentials not specified in the listing body, e.g.
“The listing doesn’t mention the condition of the frets or fretboard - Is there any chipping, cracks, signs of delamination, or any other issues you would say are cosmetic?”
“The listing doesn’t specify which gauge spring is included in the guitar* - Would you be willing to photograph the guitar with the rear cavity cover off to verify this?”
“Have you tested the stereo output of the guitar - Does the guitar put out humbucker and piezo signals in both mono and stereo?”
“Have you tested that the truss rod in the guitar can be adjusted? Fly truss repairs are next to impossible; so this is very important.”
Etc.
So, once the Fly you’ve purchased has been delivered, unboxed, and inspected for superficial damage not mentioned in the listing, I suggest you then inventory for all items specified in the listing. If those are in order, you’ll then want to perform the following steps (please let me know if I’ve blanked on crucial details):
1. Plug in and ensure full functionality of circuits, elements and (notoriously iffy) switching - Put in a new battery if necessary
2. Check fretboard for any obvious humps, lifting frets, or chips
3. Check the nut for any chips and the saddles/elements for any corrosion or missing pieces
4. Carefully remove back plate for visual inspection of electronics assembly, then the spring for condition and appropriate gauge-pairing*
5. Insert bar, ensure bushing and set-screw are intact and functional, then check trem for smooth movement, non-leaning of posts, and ability to be blocked
6. Make ugly noises with your new guitar!
Note that there are many diagnostic troubleshooting steps I’m omitting (Truss issues, intonation, strings coming out of saddles with trem use, electronic artifacts such as popping, buzzing, intermittent power or sound, etc.) - There are dedicated threads for these issues throughout the site.
——
*During the 2020 guitar boom, a particular Reverb seller pioneered the unsavory practice of buying Flys, removing the 9 and 10 gauge-rated springs, reselling the guitars with an 11 or 12 gauge spring installed at substantial markup, then selling the 9 and 10 gauge springs he removed from the guitars in separate listings, for as much as $160 per spring. Other would-be Fly “flippers” and speculators began following suit - A most unfortunate trend.
I liken this practice to a used car salesman selling you a car, then offering to sell you the A/C system he removed while you were filling out the paperwork (which contains an addendum specifying that air conditioning is not guaranteed). Though the car is technically functional without it, an informed buyer would likely recognize the prudence in avoiding dealings with such a person.
The direct consequence of this practice is that a number of first time Fly owners unlucky enough to have purchased guitars from these particular sellers have found themselves unable to properly calibrate the tension of their Parker trem; and don’t realize they've been duped until it's explained to them here or in another Parker community. Because the seller does make the point of specifying the gauge of the included spring in the listing (though not the string gauges or the consequences of a mismatched pairing), this practice technically does not violate Reverb’s listing policies. And with returns discouraged by the seller specifying restocking fees of ten percent or more in the listing, what recourse is there, save caveat emptor?
So: If you’re shopping for a Fly, do your diligence in making sure a listing isn’t too good to be true; and that the rating of the trem spring installed in the guitar matches the gauge of the strings it’s counterbalancing.
2023 Update: Buyers, DO YOUR RESEARCH and check sold listings to determine whether that single available listing for whichever particular Fly is tempting you is in fact priced fairly for its condition, its included accessories, whether any subsequent repairs needed range from minor to specialist (often considered "unfixable" for most budgets), or is just flat-out seeking to exploit your yearning. Also check to be sure you're not about to purchase a cloned listing by a zero feedback seller who is actually a scammer. By summer 2023, this has sadly become common practice on Reverb and eBay. Caveat Emptor!
There are fewer Flys for sale at a time these days - but it's often the same ones being passed around, parted out, and upsold by the same two or three guys. Chances are, the guitar you're looking at was previously resold for a much lower amount and with necessary included accessories now being omitted. I suggest you look up the previous listing(s) for the instrument and message these sellers with a link to them, asking what's so special about them that their owning the guitar for two months has increased its value so much, despite reselling the guitar without its springs*, hardshell case, "bullwinkle" hanger, or other factory accessories that should serve to depreciate its value more than implied scarcity would have over the past few weeks since the guitar was last sold. Though you're unlikely to receive a polite response, these wannabe Ed Romans aren't going to get the hint until prospective buyers start letting them know that that they're informed buyers; willing to pass on a gouging.
These guitars being exclusive to the used market means that pitfalls are the name of the game. The combination of having no warranty on defects in the proprietary tech, effectively no replacement parts, no looking back for modifications, and a volatile market value undermining one’s sense of investment should rightfully cause concern for a current or prospective Fly owner. There are no two ways about it: The impetus is entirely on the buyer to know what they’re getting, what they’ve gotten, and what they can get.
If you lack firsthand knowledge or a community resource such as this one or the Facebook group(s) to vet Fly listings with, you are likely taking unnecessary risks:
I’ve observed and interacted with unfortunate buyers who have purchased prerefined Flys with malfunctioning (or entirely nonfunctioning) piezos or controls, refined Flys with forward-leaning or otherwise malfunctioning trems, refined Flys with poorly reglued frets and fretboards, Flys with partially-lifted frets or lifting fretboards that exhibit paint chipping as a symptom, prerefined Flys with ebony fretboards, Flys with broken or even missing springs, crude repair of broken spring damage (bondo, nail polish, uneven touch-up, etc.), broken piano strings in pre-refined Flys (many owners remain unaware of the nature of their truss rod to this day), Flys with frozen pots, ill-fitting replacement knobs misrepresented as original, missing trem bushings and set screws, missing step-stop, missing spring tension wheel, etc.
An extreme example was a buyer who, having purchased an unfinished poplar Fly body and basswood neck on eBay following the Buffalo Grove factory closure, believed me to be trolling (and subsequently blocked me from sending further PMs) after I typed up a guide to aid him in completing the guitar which included a pizza oven. Last I’d heard, he had abandoned the project.
Note that these are details the sellers themselves are often unaware of. Two of my Flys were previously owned by self-described “Parker enthusiasts” who were simply clueless as how close to disaster their guitars were:
One Fly had spent years in “dive-only” mode with a set of 13-56 strings paired with a 9-spring, and no truss adjustments. The strings sat on top of the nut slots cut for a 9-42 set, and the neck bowed significantly. These were issues I discovered upon receiving the guitar - The seller hadn’t used the trem since switching to heavier strings, and maintained that the guitar “doesn’t have a truss rod; due to being plastic.”
The other guitar was a spaghetti factory of wiring modification far above the skill of a previous owner (who had spliced PTP wiring into the broken ribbon assembly while “grounding” every switch and circuit of the guitar to a single piece of electrical tape which, itself, was glued to a loose metal washer). The guitar had changed hands several times between players who could only tell that something was “off” about the circuitry.
So, when checking out a listing for a used Fly, be sure to message the seller and inquire as to any essentials not specified in the listing body, e.g.
“The listing doesn’t mention the condition of the frets or fretboard - Is there any chipping, cracks, signs of delamination, or any other issues you would say are cosmetic?”
“The listing doesn’t specify which gauge spring is included in the guitar* - Would you be willing to photograph the guitar with the rear cavity cover off to verify this?”
“Have you tested the stereo output of the guitar - Does the guitar put out humbucker and piezo signals in both mono and stereo?”
“Have you tested that the truss rod in the guitar can be adjusted? Fly truss repairs are next to impossible; so this is very important.”
Etc.
So, once the Fly you’ve purchased has been delivered, unboxed, and inspected for superficial damage not mentioned in the listing, I suggest you then inventory for all items specified in the listing. If those are in order, you’ll then want to perform the following steps (please let me know if I’ve blanked on crucial details):
1. Plug in and ensure full functionality of circuits, elements and (notoriously iffy) switching - Put in a new battery if necessary
2. Check fretboard for any obvious humps, lifting frets, or chips
3. Check the nut for any chips and the saddles/elements for any corrosion or missing pieces
4. Carefully remove back plate for visual inspection of electronics assembly, then the spring for condition and appropriate gauge-pairing*
5. Insert bar, ensure bushing and set-screw are intact and functional, then check trem for smooth movement, non-leaning of posts, and ability to be blocked
6. Make ugly noises with your new guitar!
Note that there are many diagnostic troubleshooting steps I’m omitting (Truss issues, intonation, strings coming out of saddles with trem use, electronic artifacts such as popping, buzzing, intermittent power or sound, etc.) - There are dedicated threads for these issues throughout the site.
——
*During the 2020 guitar boom, a particular Reverb seller pioneered the unsavory practice of buying Flys, removing the 9 and 10 gauge-rated springs, reselling the guitars with an 11 or 12 gauge spring installed at substantial markup, then selling the 9 and 10 gauge springs he removed from the guitars in separate listings, for as much as $160 per spring. Other would-be Fly “flippers” and speculators began following suit - A most unfortunate trend.
I liken this practice to a used car salesman selling you a car, then offering to sell you the A/C system he removed while you were filling out the paperwork (which contains an addendum specifying that air conditioning is not guaranteed). Though the car is technically functional without it, an informed buyer would likely recognize the prudence in avoiding dealings with such a person.
The direct consequence of this practice is that a number of first time Fly owners unlucky enough to have purchased guitars from these particular sellers have found themselves unable to properly calibrate the tension of their Parker trem; and don’t realize they've been duped until it's explained to them here or in another Parker community. Because the seller does make the point of specifying the gauge of the included spring in the listing (though not the string gauges or the consequences of a mismatched pairing), this practice technically does not violate Reverb’s listing policies. And with returns discouraged by the seller specifying restocking fees of ten percent or more in the listing, what recourse is there, save caveat emptor?
So: If you’re shopping for a Fly, do your diligence in making sure a listing isn’t too good to be true; and that the rating of the trem spring installed in the guitar matches the gauge of the strings it’s counterbalancing.
So it's now my daily player.
But I'll remove it.