‘99 Fly Classic Trem Problem - Help!

[THN]

I need some help with my newly acquired ’99 Parker Fly Classic. Hoping that a flyclone brethren can provide some clarity or guidance. Setting the Fly Classic up with a 10 gauge spring and a new set of D’Addario NYXL1046 strings, I find that when tuned to standard pitch, and with the three-ridge spring plate barely touching the step-stop (home), the top of the tremolo surface is not parallel with the strings’ plane. In order to have the top of the bridge aligned with the strings (or even the guitar’s top surface), the three-ridge spring plate has to sit about 1/3” away from the step-stop, and hence, fully floating. After carefully reading all the available info I could find on this forum and other parker info sources, it seems like one plausible cause is the trem posts being misaligned or leaning forward. I am hoping that is not the case, but have not had the chance to check.

Fyi, the guitar is playable as is, since I was able to get a low enough action without buzz, even with the trem not parallel to the strings. The only issue being that the trem up-travel is limited when compared to the down travel, since the trem is angled up when the step-stop and the three-ridge spring plate barely touch.

Any suggestions on what to check or adjust?

I very much appreciate it!

Happy holidays,
THN

[vjmanzo]

Hi @THN, I’ve encountered this issue before, and, if you’re certain you’ve set the bridge up properly, and that the spring and the string gauge are matched, then I’m fairly confident the issue is that your spring is failing, sorry to say.


You can block the bridge with a wood block or continue to tune the bridge in perpetually floating mode, but there’s no amount of adjusting or compensating that I’ve ever heard of that will get it to operate like usual.

I hate to share this news, but, like I said, I’ve encountered this before and the surefire solution is to swap the spring.


It’s possible that you’re encountering a well-known bridge post leaning issue. Can you check this link out and see if your Fly’s issue is fitting this description? The root of this problem has to do with a tolerance issue at the factory and is most commonly associated with USM Flys.

#SpringIssues #StringIssues

[mmmguitar]

@THN, let’s see if the 9 spring I mailed you balances things out when you go down a gauge. As rare as the springs currently are, they remain disposable in their design and function - Better you’re having a spring issue than a bridge issue (and even that can be fixed, with some know-how). And if the 9 does indeed fix things, then I guess I’ll just take your 11 spring off your hands instead of the 10

[THN]

Thank you vmanzo and mmmguitar for your quick responses! You both rock.

I will wait for the 9 spring from mmmguitar, and see if it fixes the issue (with 9-42 strings installed). During the re-string, I will take a closer look at the bridge posts.

@mmmguitar: absolutely, if the 9 spring fixes the issue, I will mail the 11 spring instead

Thanks again!
THN

[mmmguitar]

Happy to help, @THN. Being as we have a few extra days to spitball this problem, would you be willing to post any photos of the bridge and installed spring? In the meantime, here are some more considerations:

-String set tensions are not necessarily equal between SKUs. I recall anecdotes from the old Fly board concerning strings with coatings, irregular-sized cores/alloys, light top/heavy bottom sets, etc. that ended up necessitating the use of a spring up or down in gauge. It won’t hurt to try the 11 spring with the NYXLs that are currently on the guitar - Just be careful to not overly compress the spring while trying to compensate for whichever way the bridge is angled (this is where photos can help diagnose the issue by showing us which way the bridge is angled, if it’s titling forward in the rout, etc.).

- The threaded cylinder that the tension wheel adjusts can sometimes work its way out of its seat drilled into the end of the body and cause the balance issues you’re describing: The wheel will turn, but won’t actually move the cylinder or spring to where it needs to be. It’s a bit of a pain to diagnose unless you know what to look for (My own personal experience has been dirty/scratched threads on the cylinder being the culprit), but is quite an easy fix:

You detune the strings, dip the bar until the spring falls out or can be pulled out, pull the slotted spring holder (called a T-bar) out of the end of the threaded cylinder in the tension wheel, and set it aside where it won’t get up and walk away. Then, apply some lubricant to the cylinder threads, and use the tension wheel to see if the cylinder can be threaded all the way through the wheel, in both directions (the cylinder being seated in the hole near the strap button is what keeps the tension wheel in place - if the wheel falls out with the cylinder, just stick them back in). If you encounter points along the cylinder’s threading in which the wheel gets stuck, then you’ve got either dirty or scratched threads. If cleaning/lubing doesn’t help, then recutting/repairing the threads is the only alternative to replacing the cylinder - Which Mike G. has for sale, here:
https://www.ebay.com/i/184410512972?rt= ... DUnbranded

All that being said: My armchair diagnosis is that, if your bridge is angled forward, toward the neck - and not rubbing against the front of the rout -, then insufficient spring tension is counterbalancing the string tension - Indicating a spring or aforementioned spring adjustment issue. If the bridge has friction at the front of the rout, it may be a matter of leaning posts. If the bridge is angled back, then too much force is being exerted by or upon the spring, assuming it’s matched to the strings currently in standard tuning. I can attest that there’s a fair amount of room for user error in this; so you may find yourself going through the motions of setting the trem up multiple times before it just “works.”

It’s a wall of text, but I can’t think of what other problems could be present. Step-stop calibration is the final step in setting up a working trem - If you can’t get the bridge level through tension counterbalance in the first place, the step stop can’t operate.

[THN]

Hi mmmguitar,

Wow! Thanks so much for taking the time to write it and for caring! I will take pics and post them. In the meantime, couple of thoughts/questions.

First, this may turn out to be just operator’s error or perhaps annal retentive compulsive disorder (meaning mine) . So here it goes:

Physically, if the angle between the trem and the perpendicular plate where the three-ridge spring plate screws into, is 90 degrees, and the trem’s pivoting point has not moved, then regardless of spring’s health or how the guitar is tuned, the three-ridge plate should always touch the step-stop when the trem is aligned with the strings’ or guitar’s top plane. Yes?

In my Fly Classic’s case, with the guitar properly setup, tuned to standard pitch, with matching spring/string gauges, the three-ridge spring plate barely touching the step-stop (home), the angle of trem surface on the low E side is higher on the trem’s leading edge (higher towards the strings) than the back side. That seems physically impossible, if my 90 degree statement above is true.

So here is a question: since the trem is not symmetrical (the low E side is not the same as the high E side, and the front of the trem is not the the same as the back of it; furthermore, the angle of the top of the trem is also dissimilar on low and high E sides, how do we know when the trem is properly angled, if we do not have line-of-sight to the bottom of the trem? What plane or line of reference do we use?

[vjmanzo]

Physically, if the angle between the trem and the perpendicular plate where the three-ridge spring plate screws into, is 90 degrees, and the trem’s pivoting point has not moved, then regardless of spring’s health or how the guitar is tuned, the three-ridge plate should always touch the step-stop when the trem is aligned with the strings’ or guitar’s top plane. Yes?

Yes! And this is why the springs are rated to compensate for specific tensions (in lbs); about 84lbs of tension for a set of 9s and about 102lbs for a set of 10s—the springs are made differently for both gauges as the point of equilibrium is different for both. Pardon me if you’ve already seen this video on how the bridge works:

So here is a question: since the trem is not symmetrical (the low E side is not the same as the high E side, and the front of the trem is not the the same as the back of it; furthermore, the angle of the top of the trem is also dissimilar on low and high E sides, how do we know when the trem is properly angled, if we do not have line-of-sight to the bottom of the trem? What plane or line of reference do we use?

Yes, a quick comment to clarify: the arm posts that connect to the bridge (that sit inside the trek bushings) are two different sizes; the arm post on the bass side is physically a shorter piece than the one on the treble side. You can adjust the bridge so that the bridge is at an “even” height, but you’d want to regard this part of the operation as you would any other guitar setup where the nut slot depth, the relief of the neck, the gauge of strings, the bridge height, and the preferred action all become factors in determining the best setup.

I know that doesn’t exactly the question, but it also points to the critical aspect of the spring in making sure that the bridge is not floating while you’re doing this adjustment; the bridge will tilt forward and back with increased/decreased string tension unless there’s something to keep that bridge fixed at 90 (with the three-ridge plate touching against the step stop).

#SpringIssues #VibratoBridge

[THN]

Thanks vjmanzo! Right - That makes total sense reg the springs counter tension for diff string gauges. Also very informative reg the posts dimensions.

In my case though, regardless of the spring / string scenario, I would expect the trem to be aligned with the strings when the three-ridge plate barely touches the step-stop, and it doesn’t seem to be, unless I am not looking at it the right way. The pics will hopefully help clarify.

Thanks again!! Very much appreciate it

[mmmguitar]

@THN, here are photos of my '98 Classic set up with 9s, for comparison [For those of us OCD about such things: the guitar shipped with the spring off-center in the T Bar slot - I'll make sure it's centered the first time I change strings]:




@InsideInfo, this string spacing is part of why the board radius feels flatter than it is:





Off-topic: Anyone know what this means?

[THN]

Thanks mmmguitar. I very much appreciate you sharing the pictures!! They are super helpful and will serve to corroborate if in fact there is something off with mine. The bridge looks much better aligned than mine. Will be able to take some pictures and share later tonight.

[THN]

Here are the pictures. As you can see, the ruler shows how the top of the trem points up, when the three-ridge plate touches the step-stop. Am I looking at the alignment the wrong way? Perhaps too much ocd?

[THN]

Here is one without the ruler.

[vjmanzo]

Hi @THN, thanks for posting these.

Just to confirm: the step stop is actually touching the little nub on the three-ridge spring plate when the guitar is tuned to standard pitch, correct?

If that’s correct, then I withdraw my previous comments about the spring being the issue; having now seen this, it appears that there’s nothing wrong with the spring.

I’m not at all bothered by that amount of bridge leaning, but, just based on the pictures, I think the bridge is too high on the bass side. The Fly manual gives the measurements for both bass and treble side that they used at the factory; I think it might be good to adjust the bridge to those specs to start and then assess if the bridge is still leaning forward.

The up-travel is not as great as the down-travel, but you should still be able to bend up a half-step or two; I believe that @mmmguitar and a few others confirmed some of the upper limits on their Flys, but I can’t seem to locate that particular post at the moment.

The issue with the bridge leaning becomes more evident when the bridge is at greater heights as the posts need a little help remaining straight. The fix that USM introduced (those small stabilization rings) essentially lengthens the bridge post bushing. I can’t tell if this is occurring on yours, but lowering the bridge height to factory specs might be something to explore if you’re interested in tweaking it further.

As a bit of added context on the bridge post leaning issue: from what I’ve been told from former USM technicians, the bridge post issue does not “begin to develop” on Flys; if you’re Fly was made with more than one fingerboard (which produces a slightly chunkier neck), then the bridge had to be set a little higher, and sometimes the height caused this issue with the bridge posts. There’s nothing wrong with your guitar; if while making the Fly, something went wrong with the frets/fretboard, instead of trying peel the fretboard off after it was epoxied in place, they’d simply put another fretboard on top. Each fingerboard adds height to the neck; this is why some Fly necks are chunkier than others—some much more noticeably chunkier than others! @Ken Parker told me that made Reeves Gabrels a NiteFly with three fretboards stacked on eachother to give a really chunky feel!

[mmmguitar]

As VJ said, the spring appears fine - So I’ll still be taking that 10 off your hands.

Here’s the post/thread about pull-up range: viewtopic.php?p=993#p993

@THN, so long as the action and free-floating performance of the trem are to your liking, your Fly hardware appears to be in working order (pending final calibration of the step-stop, if that’s still an issue). The Fly trem doesn’t need to be flush and level with the top of the body in the way Floyd Rose baseplates do (and even those don’t need to be); so I can’t say I see any issues in the photos posted. Unfortunately, I think I’d need to see it in person in order to give it a clean bill of health.

I can say with certainty, however, that the trem setup and range of detuning varies between my Flys (as mentioned in the linked thread) according to string/spring pairing, as well as the factors mentioned by VJ.

[THN]

Hi Vjmanzo,

Thank you for the detailed response!! Man, I feel bad I am making you guys go through so much trouble just to help me fix my Fly.

Yes, the step stop is actually touching the little nub on the three-ridge spring plate and the guitar is tuned to standard pitch.

After taking the pictures, I indeed lowered the bridge a bit, and it helped with the alignment some. The action is now actually lower than the 0.07 and 0.05 factory specs. There are couple of frets that are just barely higher than the others (tested with a fret rocker). I will fix that, and lower it more if it allows me to do so without choking bent notes or fret buzzing.

Once I receive the 9 gauge spring that mmmguitar mailed to me, I will restring it and check the posts’ health at that time, as well as measure the neck thickness with a caliper. The neck of my Classic feels chunkier than I remember my old Deluxe as having, but that is a 3 or 4 years old memory, so I am not really sure if in fact it is. If it is, that may explain things.

I read the posts/articles on the post leaning and the bushings-stabilization rings, but couldn’t find where to buy them.

Thanks again! You guys rock.

[THN]

Hi mmmguitar,

Thanks for the link to the trem travel posts. I appreciate it. Sure thing - will mail you the 10 gauge spring, instead of the 11.

Best,
Oscar

[mmmguitar]

@THN, I won’t speak for VJ, but it doesn’t take much to get me gushing about Fly minutiae.

Of the six Flys I’ve owned, three required some fret leveling. I’m hoping that, with a string/spring change and some light setup tech work, your Fly will play as well as you’d hoped it would. But I certainly have my favorite(s) of the ones I’ve owned - Certainly, they were not created equal.

[vjmanzo]

@THN, I won’t speak for VJ, but it doesn’t take much to get me gushing about Fly minutiae.

Oh, man—totally same here!! I absolutely love talking about any aspect of the Flys!! So glad to see things working out for yours, @THN!

@mmmguitar is right—they’re not all created equal, and even if they were created equal, if you’re buying one used (which is all we can do now) you do encounter varying levels of weirdness depending on, frankly, whether the previous owner read the manual! Still, it’s kinda fun doing these little tweaks to fine tune the Fly, and then look at what you’ve got!!!

[THN]

I apologize if I made you guys waste time on trying to address a non-issue with my Classic. I am particular when it comes to setting up my guitars, and it seemed like it was off to me.

@mmmguitar - thanks again. I think this Classic will be a keeper. It is in mint condition, and plays great - just needs a good setup and very slight fret leveling. As soon as I get the 9 gauge spring from you, I will get to work. As VJ said, it doesn’t look like the previous owner read the manual .

@vjmanzo, I hear you! I have owned many guitars - probably 40 or so. Always tweaking, upgrading, dissembling, reassembling, tweaking some more... until they are to my liking. Otherwise, I don’t keep them for long. I too have tons of fun tweaking and fine tuning .

Not surprised that not all the Flys were created equal. Parker was hand building them, with all custom components (except for the sperzel tuners), long before CNC was common place in guitar building. And trying to do so at a viable price point that could sell. Some variance is to be expected in that scenario.


If the posts’ health checks out fine, and if I decide to address the bridge pointing up (doubtful since the guitar plays great as is), I may just add some shimming material to the step-stop or the three-ridge plate. That should address the bridge pointing up issue.

Thank you both again!

[THN]

@mmmguitar - received the 9 gauge spring today. Thanks! Will work on restringing and set-up over the weekend, unless you need my 10 gauge spring sooner than next week.

Best,
Oscar