KenanJ wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 4:45 am
you mention you worked with 3x3-03 but on their website there are 3x3-04 and 3x3-05 as well, I don't think the bigger model would work but I think a simple 3x3-03 should be enough, I'm taking any input on that.
The 3x3-03 is useful for coil splits (of which you're wanting only one of, in position 5), and the -05 model switch is the only one you can use to get series/parallel switching for both humbuckers as positions on the selector switch. I wrote a few paragraphs explaining why, for anyone unfamiliar with how those switches work. You can also skip down to the part where I post the Free-Way diagram samples for the -05 and -03 models.
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KenanJ wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 4:45 am
my final goal would be to have a toggle that can do:
1st bank:
- Bridge Hum
- Out of phase Hums (Grenny-ish tone)
- Neck Hum
2nd bank:
- Bridge Hum in parallel
- Bridge + Neck split (can I chose which coil is kept? I think maybe inner Bridge and outter Neck would be better?)
- Neck hum in parallel
What's your thoughts?
I don't know if there is a product which will consolidate those six functions to a single toggle (there was the
Guitar Max board with programmable presets - But I don't know that it ever materialized). Assuming the least about finding an all-in-one solution, I'll try to explain what kind of switching you'll need to produce those wiring configurations in detail; for the sake of anyone else who might find this thread and be inspired by the options you've listed:
The switching in a typical three way pickup selector toggle for two pickups (such as you'd find on a Les Paul) is "single pole, double throw" (hereafter abbreviated SPDT). We can think of the single pole as being a terminal for one wire to be connected to, and the "double throw" referring to the two switch positions in which it is connected to one of two other switch terminals at a time. The terminal (also commonly referred to as a "contact" or "lug") which is connected in all switch positions is designated "common."
For the sake of illustration, we'll imagine a double-throw switch which has only two switch positions (A/B-ing between which of the two terminals is connected to the common terminal). A two position switch, in this case, is designated "On-On"; because the common is connected to either A or B in both positions. If you were to have a switch position in which the common was
not connected, that switch position would be designated "Off." In typical pickup selector switching, every switch position is "On." So, for example, a modern Stratocaster's five position selector switch has five throws and is, technically speaking, an "on-on-on-on-on" switch. But let's stick with SPDT for now:
If you were to connect a wire from the SPDT common terminal to the "tip" terminal on an output jack (or to any components in the signal path eventually passing the signal along to the jack), the common terminal would function as the switch "output"; meaning you could then use the SPDT to switch between two different signal sources being outputted via the common. You could also use a SPDT in the opposite orientation; where a single signal source connected to the common is A/B'd between the other switch terminals each acting as outputs (in guitars, this is often used as a "bypass" switch to remove potentiometers from the circuit, to output a particular pickup's signal directly to the guitar's output jack, or to divert the guitar signal through a filter or preamp along its path to the output jack).
I described all this because switches with additional poles often act as multiple SPDTs contained within a single switch housing, actuated with one switch lever. The nomenclature for the number of switching poles goes "single" (S), then "double" (D) for two switch poles, and then number designations for additional poles (3P, 4P, etc.):
The next diagram is to illustrate how a "3 way" pickup selector works: It is still SPDT - But the "middle" switch position is an additional "On" which connects the common to
both of the other terminals:
Parker guitars with mag/mix/piezo switches utilize an example of an On-Off-On SPDT; because the outputted stereo signal is determined by sending either the mag pickup circuit or piezo circuit signals to ground (with the unconnected/"off" middle switch position putting
neither to ground; which allows both to be outputted via the "tip" and/or "ring" terminals of the stereo output jack).
I illustrated these so we can recognize that more complicated switches are merely crowded variations of these basic examples; with the terminals of the additional poles arranged according to whatever minimizes space. This means that, no matter how non-intuitively the terminals on a switch are arranged, you can infer exactly what function they perform by identifying which terminals are common, and which pole terminals connect to it in each throw of the various switch positions (chart it out on a napkin, if you have to - It will preserve your sanity!).
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With those fundamentals established, let's go through your desired switching options to determine how many switching poles and throws are required to achieve each one:
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Bridge humbucker coils in series" requires no switching.
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Both series humbuckers in parallel, with the start and finish wires of one humbucker reversed ("phase switch" wiring)" requires a DPDT switch; because we need two common outputs: One to select which wire is outputted as signal, and another to select which wire is outputted to ground.
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Neck humbucker coils in series" requires no switching - However, a SPDT common is required to switch between the two pickups.
So far, we need a 3PDT on-on-on for pickup selection and phase switching between three switch positions. Now let's consider the other three wire configurations separately:
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Bridge humbucker coils in parallel" requires two commons of a DPDT: One pole to select between whether the finish wire of one coil is connected to the start coil of the other (two coils in parallel) or to the other's finish coil (two coils in series), and another pole to send the finish coil going unused in parallel wiring to ground (this is necessary for the humbucker coils to function as separate single coils).
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Bridge inside coil in parallel with Neck outside coil" requires a DPST (though DPDT switches are most commonly used); because each pair of humbucker coil-finish wires connected for series operation needs connected to an isolated common so that their signals can be shunted to ground with one throw in order to be turned "off." You can combine whichever coils you like - But you first need to determine that the wind direction and magnetic polarity of the active coils will result in hum cancellation when combined, as well as their being in phase with one another.
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Neck humbucker coils in parallel" requires a DPDT for the reasons listed above for series/parallel switching in the bridge humbucker. Because each pickup requires its own DPDT, four wires being switched means a 4PDT is required to perform series/parallel switching for two pickups with one switch.
Those three options would require a total of 6 poles on a single switch to perform; with the number of poles required for all six desired wiring configurations totaling 9.
Here is the first hurdle in achieving that with one switch: It's practically unheard-of to produce mechanical 9PDT switches in one housing small enough to fit into a guitar cavity - The job of affording that many functions in one guitar is typically split between several, more common DPDT or 4PDT switches.
The Free-Way switches themselves have only two poles; with the 3x3-03 and 3x3-05 being DP6T. The difference between the two is that the 3x3-05 has twice as many
terminals connecting to the common in each pole's throws (two dedicated terminals for each pole, per switch position)
Your desired switching requires some cleverness in taking six wires (three conductors from each humbucker) and coming up with a diagram which connects them to each other and/or to ground in a variety of combinations - while also selecting one or both pickups -, to perform 9 poles' worth of work with
maybe 4 available within the space constraints of the Fly, if we split the workload between a Free-Way switch and a push-pull pot.
I have two workarounds in mind, utilizing either the 3x3-03 or 3x3-05, plus a DPDT push-pull tone pot. I'll get the the -05 proposal out of the way first, because it requires a bit for work (click to enlarge):
Because the 3x3-03 doesn't have the number of either poles or terminals required to perform as many simultaneous duties as you're wanting, you may wish to consider the larger footprint of the more versatile 3x3-05 just to have both "humbucker in parallel" options available on the switch. You can get five of the six functions you want from the selector itself, then outsource the additional DPDT workload needed for phase reversal to a push-pull pot, for a total of 8 sounds. I'm willing to revise the above diagram to reflect these changes, should you decide to pursue it.
Note that the space constraints of your '90's Fly wiring within the cavity may necessitate swapping the location of the selector switch with one of the pots. This is because even the smaller 3x3-03 requires removing some of the material of the cavity wall on the lower bout of the Fly with a Dremel sanding barrel to accommodate the switch's footprint (I found this to be the case when installing them in my '96, '97, and '11 Flys). I never purchased a 3x3-05 for a Fly project, because I didn't think it would fit in that space and; therefore, need to be relocated to one of the holes nearer the center of the cavity rout, with no guarantee the other controls would still fit in the adjacent holes around the switch's larger footprint.
You can actually print a footprint template of the switches off the Free-Way site and cut it to size to see how much material might be removed from the cavity wall on the lower bout of the guitar to accommodate each model. The flex PCB assembly means jumper wires would need to be soldered from the relocated controls' terminals to their solder points on the flex PCB, to minimize unnecessary strain or folding liable to tear the original, brittle material used.
Now, in case you're set on the 3x3-03 due to working within the space constraints, I think you can get everything but the "bridge pickup coils in parallel" sound from the switch:
As with the 3x3-05 idea, you can use a push-pull DPDT pot to give you the "bridge coils in parallel" option in switch position "3." The way Fly pickups are wound by Dimarzio, one pickup has the black and white coil finish wires as its series connection, while the other pickup has the red and green coil start wires as its series connection. This is done so that the pickups are in phase when combined. Simply change the wire codes of the neck pickup to be identical to the bridge pickup, and you
should end up with the out-of-phase signal you want in position 2, and in-phase split neck outside coil and bridge inside coil in position 5 (I no longer have a set of stock Fly pickups to confirm that it's as simple as I'm imagining - There may end up being an additional step required). The Position 6 sound (split coil bridge pickup by itself) will just be a bonus sound on the switch.
The switching options you want are possible - Just seemingly not all with one switch. Furthermore, the space constraints of a Ken-era Fly quickly complicates these kinds of mods.
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and same: it’s also why I like having more than 1 Fly.