the Fly Clone Project

Hey yall,

First time posting here, I'm interested in buying my first Fly but have some reservations, especially after reading the "When Buying Used Flys" page I've always respected the innovation of these guitars and played one briefly back in the day and was pretty impressed. The versatility and the extremely lightweight/balance has got me curious again to own one of these historic instruments.

Just curious what the crowd here thought about some of the listings available on reverb right now as far as what might be the best buy. I'm hoping to get a pre-refined deluxe fly but would be open to similar models if something cool and in good shape becomes available.

All the prices seem a bit inflated but also some of the listings seem better than others. What do you guys think of these and what would be appropriate prices to offer? I have recently asked the sellers all the more in depth questions listed on the "Buying used flys" thread.

Serial 050179BP
https://reverb.com/item/71375442-parker ... LJOuRGDHQo

Seems pretty complete and in good shape w/ multiple springs, OHSC, and etc.

Serial 365088BP
https://reverb.com/item/70700667-parker ... -green?bk=

Less descriptive, missing springs per seller, case looks to be non original but I am not sure.

Thank you!

lostbirds wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:14 pm Just curious what the crowd here thought about some of the listings available on reverb right now as far as what might be the best buy.

Hi @lostbirds and welcome!

I’ll share my personal opinion, which is that $2300-ish can you get you a good Fly if you’re patient and are ready when the right one comes along. Maybe one of these sellers you’ve identified would meet you near that price point (if that’s a factor for you)? Since this is your first Fly, I would recommend looking for a Deluxe as you’ve mentioned and decide between now and then if a vibrato bridge is important to you. Good Flys do come up for sale at this price point and lower (though not as much lately), but the market on eBay and Reverb does seem to be saturated right now with sellers asking much more than that...in some cases more than twice that as you see.

It’s less common, but some of our members post their instruments for sale in the Classifieds section here, and they can thus avoid all of the fees that Reverb and eBay impose. Keeping an eye on Craigslist is also a good idea as you can sometimes get a chance to play it before paying for it, which is something you won’t get on eBay or Reverb.

Good luck!

lostbirds wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:14 pm Serial 365088BP
https://reverb.com/item/70700667-parker ... -green?bk=

Have you received communications back from this seller? Though a month old, this sole listing from a brand new, zero feedback seller should be considered fraudulent until the seller has provided a personalized photo of the guitar (e.g., holding a piece of paper with your name and that day's date written on it in front of the instrument). Then again, the other guitar is cross-listed on eBay with a zero feedback account; so it might just come down to which storefront you use.

In addition to everything VJ stated, I'd like to add that the two Emerald Green Deluxe listings linked above strike me as "for-profit" examples; listed by owners only willing to part with their guitars if they can double their money. There's no reason for including a $110 spring rated for a 12-54 set or, in the case of the other, a spare manual (?) and extra bar, except to sweeten the sale with case candy.

The smart aleck in me wants to ask such sellers how much less it would be to buy just the guitar by itself. Should they respond with "the guitar is EASILY worth the asking price by itself', I'd tell them I'll take just the case and accessories for $0, then. But I'm also willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt that they're just trying to compete with listings offering less.

All that said, if you're wanting a 20+ year old, Ken-era Fly, you can expect to either pounce on a blemished listing popping up for the right price, or negotiating for a case queen sold by someone who knows what they have. The good news is that the current buyer's market means you can reference the next-cheapest listing when negotiating. Bear in mind that nearly every Parker you're making an offer on is liable to have changed hands at least once in the past three years; and a little legwork to dig up a previous listing can either weigh negotiations in your favor, or serve to let you know that the seller is dealing in bad faith.

As a side note: Does anyone else remember ten or so years ago, when you could find used Emerald Green Deluxes online for $1,000 or less all day long; because they were the least desirable color?

...

I noticed this black '05 Mojo (serial 0200205MM) just sold for $2,500 due to a cosmetic repair at the headstock.

In general, I haven't received much communication from that seller w/ zero feedback, and have heard nothing from them since I posed some of the majorly important questions.

The other sellers (w/ multiple springs) is more responsive and seems a bit more knowledgeable. I would categorize him as the "knows what he has" seller. This one strikes me as a safer buy and he told me he is going to get me more close up photos of various spots of the guitar, including gut shots, and is going to test the truss rod to ensure it is functioning. I would have guessed the guitar is still only worth around 3k and he is up charging for the market.

Case candy and manuals are a pretty common thing to include and I try to include as much as I have when I am buying/selling, but I can see how in the case of the Parker's that it is a bit of tactic to bump the price up. Likewise if things are missing it should definitely detract from the price...

If it is indeed possible to get a very good+ condition fly deluxe for $2300, by all means someone send one my way lol, based just on reverbs track record, you can see $4k is pushing it, yet alone $5k for the plum colored deluxe thats up at the moment.

Re: desireable colors. I sort of assumed that green was least desirable based on the availability. Other than specialty custom or one off colors, which colors are more desirable and is there a ledger that shows how many were produced? Just curious!

mmmguitar wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:24 pm Does anyone else remember ten or so years ago, when you could find used Emerald Green Deluxes online for $1,000 or less all day long; because they were the least desirable color?

Oh yes! I always liked that color FWIW

lostbirds wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:02 am Other than specialty custom or one off colors, which colors are more desirable and is there a ledger that shows how many were produced? Just curious!

Keep in mind that the Deluxe is the only Fly that came standard with a solid finish; the available colors are all visible in the catalogs. I don’t know that any of the finishes are considered across-the-board more or less desirable than others; it seems quite subjective. The more desirable attribute seems to be the Fly model (Deluxe, Artist, Supreme, etc.), some of which have very few finish options. The original batch of Flys (Deluxe) came in either black or white and there were only a handful of white (according to @Ken Parker) because a white finish without any sort of specks or marks was more troublesome for the finish department than black, as you can imagine.

Through the years, I’ve had friends ask for help finding ones in just about every finish available, which they considered to be the most desirable.

vjmanzo wrote: Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:05 am

mmmguitar wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:24 pm Does anyone else remember ten or so years ago, when you could find used Emerald Green Deluxes online for $1,000 or less all day long; because they were the least desirable color?

Oh yes! I always liked that color FWIW

I quite like Emerald, as well. If I recall correctly, in one of Vj’s videos, Ken stated that his favorite colors are Emerald and White

Gregsaab wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2023 11:34 am If I recall correctly, in one of Vj’s videos, Ken stated that his favorite colors are Emerald and White

“…maybe tied with greeeeeen!” One of my favorite @Ken Parker moments

mmmguitar wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:24 pm As a side note: Does anyone else remember ten or so years ago, when you could find used Emerald Green Deluxes online for $1,000 or less all day long; because they were the least desirable color?

REGRET

Probably my favorite color now.

Yes but I didn't have any spare $1000 bills sitting around to collect them!

sindrist wrote: Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:18 am

vjmanzo wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2023 7:57 am This 1999 Fly Nylon sold quickly (about 10 hours) for just above $5k.

I knew I recognised the pattern on the table cloth:

https://reverb.com/item/64428874-parker ... _sold=true

First from Estonia and now from Korea:

https://reverb.com/item/70956228-1999-parker-nylon-fly

https://reverb.com/item/72863032-1999-p ... t=72863032

lostbirds wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:02 am If it is indeed possible to get a very good+ condition fly deluxe for $2300, by all means someone send one my way lol…

It’s not a Deluxe, but a seemingly very good+ condition Fly Mojo with OHSC went for $2375 yesterday via auction on eBay here. Again, not a 100% match of what you're looking for, but auction listings without a reserve (as opposed to Buy It Now and Reverb listings) are some sort of market indicator, right?

This auction started at $1 and slowly creeped to $2350 with about three days left, and then sat at that price until just about the end.

vjmanzo wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:04 pm I’ll share my personal opinion, which is that $2300-ish can you get you a good Fly if you’re patient and are ready when the right one comes along.

Not to overstate this perspective, but Guitar Center posted this Fly Classic in “Great” condition today for $2399 (which is now sold):
There’s no photo in the listing, which seems to be something that happens with Guitar Center, but if a listing like this is of interest, you can typically call the phone number for the store and ask someone that works there to send you photos—or you can roll the dice and just buy it outright, then take advantage of their 45-return policy if it’s a dud.

vjmanzo wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2023 11:40 am

lostbirds wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 1:02 am If it is indeed possible to get a very good+ condition fly deluxe for $2300, by all means someone send one my way lol…

It’s not a Deluxe, but a seemingly very good+ condition Fly Mojo with OHSC went for $2375 yesterday via auction on eBay here. Again, not a 100% match of what you're looking for, but auction listings without a reserve (as opposed to Buy It Now and Reverb listings) are some sort of market indicator, right?

This auction started at $1 and slowly creeped to $2350 with about three days left, and then sat at that price until just about the end.

FlyMojo.jpgScreen Shot 2023-08-27 at 1.28.45 PM.png

Flip flip flip flip ....

https://reverb.com/item/73075581-2006-p ... -condition

Patzag wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 2:36 pm Flip flip flip flip ....

vjmanzo wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 3:49 pm

Patzag wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 2:36 pm Flip flip flip flip ....

I think the guitar was properly priced for a near-mint refined. The new price seems inflated.

I keep forgetting to post that, as mentioned in the eBay listing, that black '06 Mojo was previously sold on Reverb by the Biggest Parker Collector in the World® during the period where he was repeatedly registering new seller accounts to circumvent his ban. As such, the Reverb feedback history potentially showing where he had bought it prior to flipping it isn't visible - But I'll keep digging for other instances of 0720806MM. Update: It sold on September 5th for $3,314.00+tax.

This '95 trans blue Classic in Ireland has dropped its asking price from $3,366 to $2,364 after sitting for two months. I'm highlighting this because, despite having been congested with competing Fly listings for months, the Reverb sellers with perpetually sitting inventory have generally been unwilling to dip below $2,500 (this gray '06 Deluxe and natural '04 Mojo with piezo issues have been the holdouts; with the occasional sub-$2.5k listings pointed out by VJ and others tending to be scooped up, even when exhibiting cosmetic issues).

vjmanzo wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2023 11:40 am …auction listings without a reserve (as opposed to Buy It Now and Reverb listings) are some sort of market indicator, right?

This ‘93 Fly Deluxe (black hardtail) just sold via eBay auction (not Buy It Now) with original gig bag for $1476 w/free shipping out of Massachusetts.

The #13 of 25 Four Seasons Fall Mojo is on Reverb for EUR 19,484.44.
Since my custom DF845 "Toxic" is 25 times as rare I should consider EUR 450,000 a very fair price, right?

Greetings...
Nef

Pictured below is the trick Fly owners are using in order to get their guitars to appreciate to over nine thousand dollars in value, which the subsequent pages of listings sitting under that amount have apparently failed to do:


This '99 Supreme with a hidden serial (nonetheless identifiable through its body's grain markings), in "mint except for a finish chip" condition, was asking $10,145 until the listing price dropped to $8,950 on 9/21, then to $7,995 on 9/30. After rejecting two offers, the seller unlisted the guitar; which was concurrently listed in the FB groups with a $7,500 asking price, before again being dropped to $6,500 on 10/6. It's possible a FB sale for that amount precipitated the Supreme being taken off Reverb.

'99 Natural Classic 236029BMH previously advertised without a price here with the qualification that "I'm sure it is worth far more than what most of them are selling for, considering her age and MINT condition", asking $9,904.

Looking at the most recent Parker sales on Reverb shows that the majority of listings actually moving are non-Fly models priced under $2K, with Fly sales averaging under $3K and outliers seeming to top out around the $3,500 range.

Now, if we look at the guitars in that $9K+ range which have sold, what's shown is that the actual, final sale prices are undisclosed because they were negotiated:

The $27,000 Koa Fly, listed at that price to circumvent paying for Reverb bumps, sold following three offers. The $10,095 2013 quilt burst blue Mojo P1308021 went for a single offer.

As detailed in recent posts, we seem to be seeing Artists and Supremes selling for anywhere between $3-5K, presumably due to their relative rarity in the marketplace - Yet contrary to actually being far more common in production numbers than, say, many of the guitars built under the Parker brand between 2013-15, after the brand had switched to a built-to-order model. We continue to see guitars from that era produced under the Fly moniker and shape priced in competition with Flys from all other eras of production, despite their specs actually being far more rare.

Overall, we seem to be dealing with market value being determined by rarity only as perceived by the seller, which itself is only proven by actual sales. As obvious as this may be to those of us who follow it, supply exceeding demand doesn't seem to be a consideration for those ostensibly seeing the most expensive listings and deciding that's where their guitar must belong. That's how you get listings such as this pawn shop RF model initially listed as a $,3500 Fly, then relisted as a $2,500 NiteFly.

I honestly wonder if I should post my custom with such a ridiculous price. At least it really is unique and in great condition. What do I care if some idiot pays way too much for it in order to attempt to resell it for even more if it funds a lot of new gear for me?

Greetings...
Nef