Fly partially detached fret(s) issue

[vjmanzo]

I thought the fretboard was totally flat!

The fretboard is a layer of fiberglass on top of a layer of carbon fiber on top of another layer of fiberglass. A laser was used to etch out a slot in the top layer of fiberglass, so that the underside of the fret is epoxied onto the layer of carbon fiber. There's a reference figure on the parts page.

[nuovonormale]

Hi all,
just a "final" update on this.. I've solved my issue for the moment by setting a *slightly* higher action (via bridge screws) than the one I had right after the "fix job" (I had removed the bridge to avoid throwing the still new strings )

One day I'll try the complete removal and re-install thing, especially if other frets start having lifting issues.

thanks everyone for your kind support!

Andrea

@Patzag, @billy : thank you both!
I think after this "half failure" I've gained a bit of confidence. I'll let it rest for a while and (when I gather the courage ) eventually do as you suggest.
cheers
Andrea

Good for you! It's not half as hard as it's made to look. Let us know how you made out!

[vjmanzo]

Congrats, Andrea! Nice compromise! You’re right that this is a big job, which you can always pursue down the line if you’d like. Glad you’ve found some resolve with this!

[Jupiter]

Did any of you ever experience this "partial detach" issue (as opposed to a "full" fret falling out issue)?
If so, do you think the only way is to completely remove those frets and re-glue them? Or there might be some other, lighter way to fix it?

Happened to me a week after I bought my '95 Fly Deluxe (recently), 2nd hand (or probably 34th hand).

Initially, I thought it was just the first fret but it turned out there where a few more but not as bad as the first fret.

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I left it to my luthier, he just reglued the problematic frets without completelly removing them.

Knock on wood, I've spent a couple of hours playing with it, everything seems fine.

PS: I love that guitar, it became my #1 but honestly, I'll try to buy another one (preferably a refined Fly) for backup...

Great...the first fret started detaching again...oh boy, this can't be good...

I noticed it while playing, put on my glasses and verified it.

[nuovonormale]

sorry to hear that
the partially detached one I glued back in august seems to be staying in place but.. in the meantime the first fret, which previous owner told me he had re-glued himself after it had fallen off, just popped out of the neck one day.. with no specific reason!
It's been two months.. and I have never had the courage to glue it back yet.
But as soon as I've a little time I'll give it a try since I now have glue, etc
If I fail.. I'll ship it to a parker-guru-luthier and I hope it'll be the end of the story!!

What will you do, Jupiter?

[Jupiter]

Well @nuovonormale , I have already notified my luthier that one of the (how many were they back then, 3? 4?) problematic frets got partially detached again, so he will glue it back...again...

This one lasted 9 months, lol...the rest of seem OK...well. for now...

[Patzag]

Well @nuovonormale , I have already notified my luthier that one of the (how many were they back then, 3? 4?) problematic frets got partially detached again, so he will glue it back...again...

This one lasted 9 months, lol...the rest of seem OK...well. for now...

That’s not normal. Must’ve been using an Epoxy or some other incorrect glue.
My repair with Cyanoacrylate is still holding strong.

[Jupiter]

That’s not normal. Must’ve been using an Epoxy or some other incorrect glue.
My repair with Cyanoacrylate is still holding strong.

I don't know Pat, the thing is that so far only one out of 3 or 4 in total got detached...the rest seem fine...well at least right now...

I provided him with all the needed information regarding this repair but I don't know what kind of glue he used.

But you have a point, so what I am going to do is, I'll ask him, if he didn't use that kind of glue, I'll buy a few of these

and take them with me the day of the appointment.

How long do these last once the bottle is open? Should I put them in the fridge like I do with the superglues?

[mmmguitar]

Should I put them in the fridge like I do with the superglues?

Yes. As with all cyanoacrylate glues, minimizing its contact with air moisture by sealing the bottle and storing in the fridge in a sealed plastic bag should significantly extend its shelf life.

[Jupiter]

ΟΚ, I checked with my luthier, he used cyanoacrylate glue indeed.

[Patzag]

Good luck for the next pass.
It should last “forever”.

[Jupiter]

OK, I am getting a little bit frustrated here...

For the 3rd time I have frets getting partially detatched on my Deluxe...

Last time we used the right glue and all that jazz...

What am I supposed to do, retire the poor thing? Store it for spare parts for my Classic (thank God, also pre-refined)?

I remember I had read that we should use some kind of powder and not just this kind of glue? If yes, could somebody prompt me what we should buy?

Come on guys, help me out, I really don't want to retire this guitar...

Thanks in advance!

[vjmanzo]

Hi @Jupiter—sorry to hear that. I would be getting a little frustrated too.

May I ask, what’s the relative humidity like in your studio/home?

[Jupiter]

Hi @Jupiter—sorry to hear that. I would be getting a little frustrated too.

May I ask, what’s the relative humidity like in your studio/home?

Depends, right now it's 55%.

I reckon it doesn't have to do with either humidity or temperature...

Last time we repaired it was last May and I didn't even spend more than 2 hours playing with it...it was in a Parker hard case, stored in my bedroom...

My Classic is still going strong, no issues yet (knock on wood)...

[Patzag]

One thing you can try, instead of the glass beads if you don't have them, is to add a little bit of very fine baking soda to your glue. It will bond very fast and according to many, make your bond stronger. It's definitely worth a shot.

Here's an article that covers this:
https://aronalpha.net/blog/how-strong-i ... le%20bonds.

[mmmguitar]

Apologies if this has already been measured or ruled out: Might there be a radius mismatch to explain why the fret is lifting on the edges? In typical tanged fret installations, you want the fret over-radiused (curved) so that hammering or caul-pressing it into the slot will force the crown to conform to the radius of the fingerboard surface. This is much trickier to match on a Fly; due to the conical shape of the board surface necessitating different radii measurements per fret, lack of slots to aid in conforming the fret crown to the radius of the fingerboard surface under it, and extreme rigidity of the fret material necessitating significant force to get the underside of the fret to conform to a radius matching the surface it's being adhered to. In Ken's video re-gluing the frets on InsideInfo's USM-era Fly, for example, he identifies a radius mismatch and bends the fret by hand until it's conformed close enough to the surface to no longer rock, lift, or even have room to spring or bounce when tapped - The implication being that clamping a glued Fly fret under a caul is insufficient if the radii don't match; as the fret is liable to spring back into shape once the clamp pressure is removed:

[Jupiter]

So, I am thinking of my options here...

The best case scenario for me is to find a tech to make 24 bloody fret slots, install "normal" frets and forget all about it because I am really getting tired with this recurring issue.

I spoke with my tech about it, the problem he is not familiar with the carbon fiber/fiberglass materials etc, so we are looking for a guy that can do it with a CNC machine.

I have already contacted a local luthier (Greece) that has one of these, he doesn't want to do it for two reasons: 1) he is not sure that his machine can actually cut these materials (without destroying everything) and 2) he is unsure about whether he is gonna be able to properly align the instrument so the fret slots won't be all over the place.

I just sent an email to another guy that has a CNC, but I am not very optimistic.

I could retire the Deluxe and have it just for spare parts for my Classic, but, darn, apart from that issue, the guitar plays like butter.

Personaly, I am not worried about the integrity of the neck in terms of the relief, the whole back of the neck is carbon fiber as well so it should be OK..

Oh, well...

[vjmanzo]

Hi @Jupiter—sorry to hear that’s it gotten to this point. I’d feel frustrated and sad if I were in your situation—it’s also puzzling considering that your other Fly is fine!

Would you consider selling the Fly as-is in lieu of all of the work you’ve proposed? I’m certain that someone would want to put in the work to restore the Fly frets even if with the risk you’ve articulated about this happening again. I know you can find another Fly that doesn’t have this issue if you’re into getting another—or not. Either way, you can move on from this part of your life.

As you know, it will be expensive and risky to go the route you’ve been exploring. I have my doubts that this will feel/play like the same instrument after all of the proposed work of installing traditional frets is complete.

[Patzag]

So, I am thinking of my options here...

The best case scenario for me is to find a tech to make 24 bloody fret slots, install "normal" frets and forget all about it because I am really getting tired with this recurring issue.

I spoke with my tech about it, the problem he is not familiar with the carbon fiber/fiberglass materials etc, so we are looking for a guy that can do it with a CNC machine.

I have already contacted a local luthier (Greece) that has one of these, he doesn't want to do it for two reasons: 1) he is not sure that his machine can actually cut these materials (without destroying everything) and 2) he is unsure about whether he is gonna be able to properly align the instrument so the fret slots won't be all over the place.

I just sent an email to another guy that has a CNC, but I am not very optimistic.

I could retire the Deluxe and have it just for spare parts for my Classic, but, darn, apart from that issue, the guitar plays like butter.

Personaly, I am not worried about the integrity of the neck in terms of the relief, the whole back of the neck is carbon fiber as well so it should be OK..

Oh, well...

I know you're frustrated, but I would try re-gluing the frets using the baking soda. I'm pretty sure that if the Fret board is well prepped, and your procedure is good the frets will stay on forever.

[Jupiter]

Hi @Jupiter—sorry to hear that’s it gotten to this point. I’d feel frustrated and sad if I were in your situation—it’s also puzzling considering that your other Fly is fine!

Would you consider selling the Fly as-is in lieu of all of the work you’ve proposed? I’m certain that someone would want to put in the work to restore the Fly frets even if with the risk you’ve articulated about this happening again. I know you can find another Fly that doesn’t have this issue if you’re into getting another—or not. Either way, you can move on from this part of your life.

As you know, it will be expensive and risky to go the route you’ve been exploring. I have my doubts that this will feel/play like the same instrument after all of the proposed work of installing traditional frets is complete.

The problem with selling it is that if my other one craps the bed, I won't have any spare parts, and a lot of things can go wrong with these unfortunately.

That's the main reason why I bought two of these when I had the chance.

Also, there is no way I'll ever find one of these at 2K or less euros in the EU...sellers have gone wild...

Oh, well...