Downtuning and bar usage

[Voice Of Reason]

Hello all,

How much can you downtune while retain a rather stable vibrato system (in fixed mode only)?

My vibrato system performs as it should in Eb (how it was set up).

While I do have some stability with the low E and g string in D standard, I can live with it. The real issues pop up when tuning lower (e.g. C# standard and C standard). The same aforementioned issues are greatly exacerbated to the point a simple flick on the bar or a bend are insufficient. Those two strings go 7-10 cents out of tune very easily. It does seem like it could be a nut issue, yet I have no issues in Eb.

Is this a common issue in this situation?

Strings: NYXL 10-52

[vjmanzo]

Hi @Voice Of Reason—I have two hardtail Flys set up in B standard and I had one Fly Deluxe w/a vibrato previously set up in that same tuning. In my experience, setting up these Flys to intonate properly was possible by adjusting the saddles as far forward as possible in some cases and some light filing to the nut, but they did intonate perfectly.

Regarding the vibrato system, it was a balance between string diameter and tuning, which yielded a comparable tension (in lbs.) to a set of tens, which I could then used normally with a ten spring. D'Addario 13’s were ultimately what I use on those instruments; specifically, D’Addario EJ17 Phosphor Bronze .013 gauge strings on my Fly Concert in B standard and D’Addario EJ22 .013 gauge strings (13-56) on my Fly Stealth (and the Fly Deluxe I formerly had with this tuning). The rate of detune will be different with heavier strings but the tension in pounds on the spring will be the same (or very similar) as a set of tens. D’Addario has recently relaunched their website https://www.daddario.com/string-tension-pro, which was the resource I used years ago to help learn where I should be in terms of string diameter, tuning, and tension.

It seems like you might have a better experience if you play with a heavier set.

Note that if you go any heavier than a .56 or so on the low E string, you’ll have to modify a Sperzel tuning peg slightly by drilling the internal post to allow the string to pass through, which is possible, but is some added work.

I hope this helps!

#StringIssues #VibratoBridge

[Voice Of Reason]

Thank you VJ.

I am simply dabbling with different tunings. I would not leave my Fly in anything lower than D standard. Seems the bar cannot be used much without resetting up each time if I understand… maybe I was hoping for too much.

Perhaps I’ll have to get one of those Digitech drop pedal if I want to keep going down that route.

Note that if you go any heavier than a .56 or so on the low E string, you’ll have to modify a Sperzel tuning peg slightly by drilling the internal post to allow the string to pass through, which is possible, but is some added work.

#StringIssues #VibratoBridge

A .56 would indeed be optimal for C standard, but I doubt I’ll acquire a Stealth.
Have you been successful in fitting anything through the bridge heavier than a .52 on a non-stealth model? On my end, it barely fits.

[vjmanzo]

Gotcha! Yes, I have the EHX Pitch Fork pedal and it’s pretty good! I’ve been preferring the FoMoFX Virtual Jeff Pro which has a polyphonic detune function as well, which is also pretty good!!

Keep us posted!

[vjmanzo]

Special thanks to @mmmguitar who first mentioned the Virtual Jeff to me/us on this forum years ago! I’d never heard of it before that.

[mmmguitar]

You repaid the favor by making me aware of a $9,000 piece of gear.

Similarly to VJ, I use outboard 13 pin gear to change tunings. And speaking of effectively mating a counterbalance between a given string gauge at a given tuning with a given spring gauge, this post from Terry recently caught my attention (click to enlarge):

Given I traded all my 11 springs to other Fly owners, I might test this down the line (it would require enlarging my Ken-era Fly's nut slots).

[vjmanzo]

Respectfully to Billy, the info in that post is not accurate for USM springs—Billy might be thinking of the thickness between a 9 and a 10, which differ in other dimensions, but do have the same steel thickness. The thickness of the 11 spring steel is .0020” thicker than a 10 spring.

The bend information is correct that there is a difference between the bend of a 10 and an 11.

[mmmguitar]

I recalled the 11 gauge being thicker; but no longer had one on hand to measure for confirmation. Thanks, Doc.

[Voice Of Reason]

Gotcha! Yes, I have the EHX Pitch Fork pedal and it’s pretty good! I’ve been preferring the FoMoFX Virtual Jeff Pro which has a polyphonic detune function as well, which is also pretty good!!

Thank you for the info. The Virtual Jeff is quite the multi-effects unit. I’m sure there’s fun to be had, but the last thing I want is to fiddle too much with too many options. Octave whammy range? Reminds me of those Boss multi-effects I had…lots of years wasted. Too many options with very few sounding decent.

I’ll keep in mind the EHX pitch fork.

I find anything below A standard to sound unpleasant (even A standard requires EQ tweaking and fiddling). Yet, I wonder up to what point could the Fly’s construction mitigate that impression of lower frequencies. I guess lower interval units are what they are.

The frontier between a guitar as we know it and a Djent machine is somewhere around G standard. Even with a 26.5” scale guitar and sufficient string tension, I could never get G standard to sound enticing: it was a mess. Goodbye power chords, hello mud. Goodbye definition, hello Morse code.

Kids tune to drop E1 these days…sometimes lower…