Springs

[Moniker]

I wish I had the engineering skills to jump in and lend a hand. Alas, I am but a simple woodworker and metallurgy is voodoo magic to me. Thank you for continuing the effort!

[Voice Of Reason]

Sounds like the challenge is for real.

Yes, there are also some societal challenges working against us as well, but things are still moving forward.

I understand the demand (amongst Fly owners) to be very high. I am unsure how feasible it would be to meet the demand once the springs are ready (at least it would take a while).

Terry Atkins (in the Factory Tour video I just posted) mentioned most springs being produced were unusable (when they took over in 2003). This is shocking. I thought springs were harder to get only during the US Music days. I didn’t expect there would have been such issues with springs when Ken was around.

Maybe there’s a leprechaun somewhere tucking a bucketload of springs away. Trouble is that he hasn’t tested all of them yet. Have you seen me spring?

[Patzag]

I am sorry, but some of the changes introduced were NOT for the better (switches anyone?). So I would have to have the info in this video confirmed by Wilmington people before I put all my faith into it.

[Voice Of Reason]

I am sorry, but some of the changes introduced were NOT for the better (switches anyone?). So I would have to have the info in this video confirmed by Wilmington people before I put all my faith into it.

Absolutely. There were plenty of questionable cost-cutting measures that certainly did not help with reliability. Yet, there are some very bold claims made in that video...let’s say we zero in on springs.

Were there actually so many problems beforehand with springs or … ?

@Patzag Were springs just as hard to obtain (other than 11 and 12 gauge) before USM took over? I mean the original manual states you’d just had to call them for more springs…how long did that last?

[Patzag]

I am by no means an authority on all things Parker. But in my 29-year career of playing Parkers:
1. I never had a spring issue.
2. I never had a truss rod issue.
3. I never saw a spring pop through the front of a guitar (though I heard of 2 mentions of it)
4. My 1994 red Deluxe, which I sold in 2002 or 2003 to a friend who still plays it EVERY DAY has never had a single issue and still runs like the day it came from the factory.
5. My 1997 Classic and 1994 Deluxe are as new as the day I got them except for the ribbon on the classic that I destroyed when I "fixed" the wiring I had messed up, and the mono/stereo switch that I screwed up when I installed a new Flex ribbon - both my user errors.

I had a great relationship with USM and Terry Atkins too. They made 2 custom guitars for me that were both great instruments. But on my S3 I bought the harness myself and sent it to USM and on the HSH, I had some troubles with electronics which I solved with Graphtech and the E string was out of alignment with the tuner. (still nice guitars).

I made a conscious decision to return to pre-refined some years ago. Yet I still love the Mojo and I wish I had kept my S3, at least for sentimental reasons (its not the same to Play Hendrix on a humbucker-equipped guitar!)

Anyway - I was just making a point that Terry is slightly exaggerating how every change they made was ideal. They lost a lot of what made the Fly the Fly - and they didn't have to.

[Gregsaab]

I’ve been mulling over the idea of designing a system that relies on magnets for the spring constant. Would be a combination of repulsion and attraction. Not sure if strong neodymium could safely be used within a guitar, but the idea interests me.

To @Patzag’s point I have seen one spring issue on my ‘98 - not a failure, but the spring was twisted to a significant degree.

[vertigocycles]

I’ve been mulling over the idea of designing a system that relies on magnets for the spring constant. Would be a combination of repulsion and attraction. Not sure if strong neodymium could safely be used within a guitar, but the idea interests me.

To @Patzag’s point I have seen one spring issue on my ‘98 - not a failure, but the spring was twisted to a significant degree.

That would be interesting if you can pull it off. It's been a while...but doesn't magnetic force fall off by the square of its distance?

When I was testing the spring on my fly, the most interesting fact that I found is that unlike conventional springs, the force required to bend this one dropped through its range of travel...it's what makes the fly trem feel so unique. I was working through a design using standard wound springs and decided that I couldn't be certain that the force near end range wouldn't cause catastrophic damage to the guitar body.

[mmmguitar]

Bumping to share this bit of info Uncle Terry Baby Billy posted in one of the FB groups:

Apparently, he's down to make subsequent runs of Fly springs once he feels there's sufficient demand.

[mark74]

Interesting. @vjmanzo It's been awhile since I've posted, how did the testing go and is there any update you could share?

I'm not sure how the Terry Billy (not sure on name) situation fits in with your R&D/production strategy. Hopefully you are still pursuing it as competition is great.

Thanks

[vjmanzo]

is there any update you could share?

Nothing official to share at this point other than that we are continuing to work on a tested and reliable solution.

[mark74]

Thank you, looking forward to future updates!

[reverend-kansas]

6 months and no updates, or did I just miss them?

[mmmguitar]

6 months and no updates, or did I just miss them?

Nah - You're in good company. The impression I've been under (merely a notion, on my part) is that Terry selling his NOS batch of Excel 9 and 10 springs on Reverb has freed the parties invested in this undertaking to take their time with it. Between Terry's shop, members trading for the desired spring gauges on this site, and Reverb repeatedly banning the guy who was flipping Flys without their 9 or 10-rated springs, I haven't seen much urgency beyond those of us who signed NDAs reminding VJ of our interest. If you're still needing an 11 spring, I have one I'll trade for a 9 or 10. I'm afraid I've never seen a 12 in person.

[vjmanzo]

We are still hard at work on this, and hope to share an update soon.

[reverend-kansas]

We are still hard at work on this, and hope to share an update soon.

I'm jonesing for another .11!

[Zargenbright]

Can’t wait to hear some good news on springs, I’ve got a single 9 spring with my guitar and it’s keeping me up at night knowing I don’t have a replacement on hand!!!

[Rimcrust]

Hi.
Long time listener, first time caller....
Does the team need any more springs samples for analysis?

[vjmanzo]

Thanks, @Rimcrust that would be very helpful and kind. We've done chemical and microscopic analyses on many broken springs from a wide range of years including a failed spring from the batch that Billy is selling now as 2022 springs. We do have a good understanding, now, of how and where these spring fail, and over the past few months we’ve had success making prototypes with a bainite microstructure that, in short, gives us the same spring functionality we expect/need/want while also being more resistant to this sort of fatigue/failure. I hope to give much more detail on this soon, as I mentioned in an earlier post.

All this to say, yes please—if you have broken springs you’re willing to send, you can send them to our lab:

V.J. Manzo
c/o EGIL WPI
100 Institute Road
Worcester, MA 01609

Thank you for calling

[Rimcrust]

Professor,
just broken?
I was thinking unbroken for comparative testing....AKA .another data line item in the Official EGIL Parker Spring Excel Spreadsheet
I bought some Terry/Billy A. Brand Springs, this week. they are labeled 2024 as opposed to 2022 which we have seen on Reverb.
In reading the backstory, one might think it is possible to be a different batch which may vary.

[vjmanzo]

Thanks, @Rimcrust—we’ll gladly take whatever you’re willing to send, so thank you for the generosity. I’ve sent you a DM, so let’s chat there. Thanks again