How many pre-refined Fly Supreme’s were made?

[colliderman]

Hi all, just curious if this kind of info exists or if anyone has an idea of the number of pre-refined Fly Supreme’s that were made.

I have dreamt about owning one of these since I was a kid. They are what made me start playing guitar in the first place and that has literally shaped my life. Now that I’m approaching 40 I’d love to finally own a Fly Supreme but I feel like I’ve missed my opportunity as the prices I’m seeing on Reverb are crazy. I just don’t know if I can justify spending that much money on a guitar. A couple years ago they seem to have sold for half the price. Are they really that rare that people are getting like 6-10k USD for them??

[vjmanzo]

Hi @colliderman and welcome!

An exact record does not exist. We can speculate, however, and from what @Ken Parker and others that worked at Parker Guitars in Wilmington have said, the Fly Supreme was not a rare model; it was a bit more expensive than a Fly Deluxe because of the materials (highly-figured maple). To put it in context, the Fly Supreme was made in large quantities to the extent that the Fly Maple Custom (aka the Fly Maple Classic) was introduced (see the 2001 catalog) as a means of selling Fly Supremes that were made with non-figured maple. In other words, they were buying a lot of maple and had to do something with the Fly Supremes that didn’t have bookmatched maple figuring, so they introduced a model that is identical in every way except visually.

You are correct that Fly Supremes do not show up on the used online marketplaces as much as models like the Fly Deluxe or the Fly Classic, and when they do show up, people generally having asking prices that are relatively higher than models like the Fly Deluxe or the Fly Classic.

#WoodTypes

[mmmguitar]

The following is just a rambling summary of market changes I observed:

I just don’t know if I can justify spending that much money on a guitar. A couple years ago they seem to have sold for half the price. Are they really that rare that people are getting like 6-10k USD for them??

I was waiting for VJ (or anyone else in a position to be privy to the numbers) to respond before I addressed this:

Some years ago, you could find many '90s Supremes, Artists, and other "flagship" Fly models on eBay, Craigslist, and Guitar Center's used section for between one and two grand, USD. This was due to a perception that the "pre-refined" era of production was somehow inferior to what USM was selling as "refined"; and this seems to have resulted in owners appraising their pre-refined Flys as being worth around half of what new Flys produced under USM were being sold for (which, for many years, was a Minimum Advertised Price of $3,200) - Whereas owners of USM-produced Flys would reference the current MAP when appraising their Flys (e.g. "Bought this last year. Barely played - Just never bonded with it. These sell for $3,200 new; so I think $2,875 is fair to ask for a Fly in what I personally feel is 10/10 condition except for where you can tell I dropped a birthday cake on it.").

Until approximately 2015, this gulf in resale prices between eras of production continued to increase due to the perception that the majority of used Fly listings appeared to be from the 1993-2002 era. Because these listings for Flys of a certain age were perceived as being in competition with one another (rather than competing with “refined” Flys missing the spring tension adjustment wheel from the face of the guitar), it became commonplace to see these Flys selling for as low as $600 (I know because I bought one of them). In the course of seller appraisal, flagship SKUs from the pre-refined era appeared to simply be lumped in with all other models from the era.

When production ended in 2015, the bottom fell out of the resale market; and owners of Parker-branded instruments from all eras of production went through a "I can't even give these away" period. Fast forward to the pandemic lockdown of 2020, and the speculator market for "vintage" Flys began to be forced.

I have dreamt about owning one of these since I was a kid. They are what made me start playing guitar in the first place and that has literally shaped my life. Now that I’m approaching 40 I’d love to finally own a Fly Supreme but I feel like I’ve missed my opportunity

It seems enough people have shared in this sentiment that they were willing to rationalize overpaying - Which owners took as a cue to list theirs for an even higher price. The pair of Supremes on Reverb for $6k are sellers continually lowering their asking prices to match each other, now that the demand seems to have dropped off. Therefore, the most I can suggest is to make an offer appropriate for your budget - The worst they can do is not accept it for now.

[vjmanzo]

The following is just a rambling summary of market changes I observed

I’ll add that I have observed the same and I think Marc is correct with what he’s written here.

[colliderman]

I appreciate your input guys. It’s interesting to hear that pre-refined models were looked at as inferior for a while. I would’ve assumed it was always the other way around since Ken Parker was at the helm in those days.

Sure wish I had bought one pre-covid. But oh well, if I’m patient I’m sure one will come along for a reasonable price. They’ve always seemed a bit undervalued to me so it’s nice to see people are starting to appreciate them. Although some sellers I think are a bit out to lunch with what they’re asking right now. The pre-refined Supreme that’s currently on Reverb was initially listed at 10.5k! Now it’s come down to 6k and still no one’s buying at that. Anyway I suppose people are free to ask what they want and people are free to pay it or not. Certainly seems to skew the market a bit though. But it sounds like what you guys are saying is that there are quite a few of them out there so hopefully some more will come along soon.

[colliderman]

On a related note, if anyone’s looking to sell a Fly for a fair price, especially if you’re in Canada, please let me know..

[Patzag]

I’ve been looking for a Supreme for a while. Missed one on reverb for 1700 by a couple of hours last year! Stay alert!

[colliderman]

I’ve been looking for a Supreme for a while. Missed one on reverb for 1700 by a couple of hours last year! Stay alert!

Yep, there was that Supreme and another one that looks to me like one of the limited run Butternut Fly’s that both sold for $1750 by the the same seller, as well as a white Deluxe. Somebody (or a couple people) absolutely STOLE those guitars. Looks like that was someone who did not know much about their value selling them on behalf of someone’s family, like an estate sale. Doubtful anything like that will ever come up again but you never know, just gotta be patient.

What would you pay for those Supreme’s that are up on Reverb now?

[Patzag]

I’ve been looking for a Supreme for a while. Missed one on reverb for 1700 by a couple of hours last year! Stay alert!

Yep, there was that Supreme and another one that looks to me like one of the limited run Butternut Fly’s that both sold for $1750 by the the same seller, as well as a white Deluxe. Somebody (or a couple people) absolutely STOLE those guitars. Looks like that was someone who did not know much about their value selling them on behalf of someone’s family, like an estate sale. Doubtful anything like that will ever come up again but you never know, just gotta be patient.

What would you pay for those Supreme’s that are up on Reverb now?

I don’t know. The one with the giant chip on the side is not worth 3k imho.
I just think all these prices are nuts. Mostly because I can’t afford them.
If I had unlimited funds, the price would not even register as a factor! I love Parker’s so much.
The other issue is that I am slowly becoming handicapped so spending a lot of money on something that has a very limited lifetime for me is unlikely.

[vjmanzo]

The one with the giant chip on the side is not worth 3k imho.

I would also not pay $3k for a Supreme with a chip in it.

Not to dissuade you or anyone from buying a Supreme, I own a Fly Maple Custom, @colliderman, and it’s a fine instrument, but the differences between it and the Deluxe are subtle—they’re there, but they are not as different as the timbral differences between a Deluxe and an Artist or a Deluxe and a Stealth. Not sure if that impacts your/anyone’s sense of the price or value of the instrument, but I don’t know that I would consider my maple body Fly to be “$5,000+ better” than my poplar body Fly, though—yes—it does look quite different, and I understand that the visual aesthetics are very important to some people and, thus, help justify the price for that cool Supreme maple figuring. If you’re in the Massachusetts area, please let me know if you’d like to visit our lab—I can bring in my Fly Maple Custom, so you can hear what it sounds like.

The other issue is that I am slowly becoming handicapped…

Ugh—I hate that. Sorry, Pat.

[Jupiter]

The other issue is that I am slowly becoming handicapped so spending a lot of money on something that has a very limited lifetime for me is unlikely.

Oh man, sorry to hear that Pat...

[colliderman]

The other issue is that I am slowly becoming handicapped so spending a lot of money on something that has a very limited lifetime for me is unlikely.

I'm very sorry to hear that @Patzag

I don’t know. The one with the giant chip on the side is not worth 3k imho.

I would also not pay $3k for a Supreme with a chip in it.

I agree and hopefully if enough people feel that way they'll stop getting listed for such inflated prices. Don't get me wrong, I know they're valuable but the price increases in just the last couple years are crazy.

Not to dissuade you or anyone from buying a Supreme, I own a Fly Maple Custom, @colliderman, and it’s a fine instrument, but the differences between it and the Deluxe are subtle—they’re there, but they are not as different as the timbral differences between a Deluxe and an Artist or a Deluxe and a Stealth. Not sure if that impacts your/anyone’s sense of the price or value of the instrument, but I don’t know that I would consider my maple body Fly to be “$5,000+ better” than my poplar body Fly, though—yes—it does look quite different, and I understand that the visual aesthetics are very important to some people and, thus, help justify the price for that cool Supreme maple figuring. If you’re in the Massachusetts area, please let me know if you’d like to visit our lab—I can bring in my Fly Maple Custom, so you can hear what it sounds like.

TBH the Supreme is just special to me because I saw one in a Guitar World ad in 1996 and I thought it was so cool looking that it made me start playing the guitar. I still have that magazine issue . Honestly I'd love to have any Parker Fly though, the Supreme just holds sentimental value to me.

And thanks for that offer! Seems like you're doing really cool stuff with the Electric Guitar Innovation Lab and I'd love to see that someday. This is such an awesome community!