Fishman Pickup Swap

[fuzzbox-UK]

Hi guys,
I would like some advice please.

I purchased a Parker Fly Mojo from new 10 years ago. The Fly had various problems over the years from selector switches breaking, replacement switches breaking, string buzzing at the 7-8th frets, tremolo plate issues whereby could not tune correctly. This caused the Parker to be put in the corner and other guitars favoured. Issues have been resolved and want to start using it again.

So, I thought I might swap the Seymour Duncan pickups to Fishman Active pickups (https://www.thomann.de/gb/fishman_fluen ... YwQAvD_BwE) and would like to ask if anyone here has had the experience and/or can offer advice?

I have read the manual(s) on this site and get the feeling that it is possible and it may take a complete re-wire and maybe mechanical alteration of the pickup base plate? I'm willing to do this work but just want to know from the experienced here, are there any potential pitfalls?

Thanks for reading

Regards

Kevin

[mmmguitar]

Welcome, @fuzzbox-UK/Kevin. First of all, the mod is very much possible. But there are considerations to be made:

The covered Fluence pickup SKUs (such as the Modern you linked to) have square corners which will likely require modification to the guitar's pickup routs to accomodate them. If you were to use one of the uncovered Open Core designs with radiused corners (pictured below), then the only modification required to fit the pickup to the shape of the Mojo rout would be to carefully clip the mounting tabs off the baseplate using tin snips or a dremel cutting disc.

Note that the baseplate of the Fluence pickups have multi-pin connectors which output several bundled wires toward one side. You will potentially need to enlarge the pickup wire channels from the routs to the control cavity with a larger diameter drill bit to accomodate these.

The pickups will require double-sided mounting tape to be affixed to the bottom of the Fly pickup routs; as there will be no mounting screws. This, combined with the added height of the baseplate multi-pin connectors, may result in the pickup sitting so tall in the stock pickup routs as to necessitate deepening the pickup routs and test-fitting the modified Fluence pickups until the desired height has been achieved.

Finally, you can be certain that any modification to the pickup baseplate will void the Fishman warranty. If you wish to keep the pickups unmodified, then the pickup routs of the guitar will need to be enlarged to accept the pickups' mounting tabs (which would themselves require much shorter mounting screws, given how thin the Fly body shape is).

From there, wiring the thing up would be no more difficult than any other active pickup installation (i.e., swapping in different value pots and deciding where the battery will be located).

#PickupPreferences

[fuzzbox-UK]

mmmguitar,
thank you for your prompt reply!

there's a lot there to take in... But I understand what you're saying as it is clearly written.

Yeah, good point, I do not want to alter the new pick ups as if they do not sound very good then I will swap them out on another guitar. That said, I'm sure they will sound awesome.

I will go and see my guitar tech on Tuesday and put this to him. He is more wood, materials and setup and not keen on rewiring electronics. So, I will do that as I understand a bit more about electronics. So, I will ask him if he is able to enlarge width and depth for the Fishman pickups and enlarge any holes for the cabling. If so, then I will attempt to complete the electronics.

One question that comes to mind is the existing piezo bridge, do you think I can keep that function untouched (re-wiring as needed of course)?

Thanks

[mmmguitar]

One question that comes to mind is the existing piezo bridge, do you think I can keep that function untouched (re-wiring as needed of course)?

Yes. If your Mojo has chrome saddles, it's a Fishman Powerchip piezo saddle/preamp system. If they're black, it's a Graph Tech Acousti-Phonic. In either circuit, the magnetic pickup signal output from the volume pot goes to a dedicated input of the piezo preamp. Your Mojo already has a TRS barrel jack for active pickup battery connections (plugging a 1/4" cable into the jack turns the piezo preamp on by grounding the 9v negative wire soldered to one of the lugs on the jack); so it's likely you won't have to rewire anything in the piezo circuit.

I have no firsthand experience with powering both the Fluence and piezo preamp with the same battery - but I'm aware that others have done it with EMGs (Here's Graph Tech's version of doing so) - I recommend reaching out to Fishman tech support to see what power options you can get away with. Otherwise, fitting a second 9v battery into the guitar may prove challenging unless you rout additional space for it.

Having your tech convert the Mojo pickup cavities so they have a typical direct mount rout for humbuckers is definitely the cleanest option for auditioning a set of Fluences. So long as you can live with the permanence of the mod, you seem ready to move forward with it. Please update us to let us know how things go - I love this kind of stuff; and will be living vicariously through you: I like Fluences enough to consider putting them in a Fly - But also like passives enough to keep them in the Fly.

[fuzzbox-UK]

..thanks for the update. More food for thought.

My Fly has black (Graph Tech) saddles. BTW Will post photos before, during and after the work... If I go ahead of course.

I have purchased a rechargeable battery pack from Fishman https://www.thomann.de/gb/fishman_unive ... y_pack.htm. So, I already have a battery compartment on the back plate. So, I should be able to re-route (and/or re-wire) the existing wires so I just have one battery for everything. I don't think I can use the space for the existing battery slot... but it's plastic so... maybe a little re-work in that area.

I will reach out to tech support at Fishman today and see what they suggest.

[mmmguitar]

I don't think I can use the space for the existing battery slot... but it's plastic so... maybe a little re-work in that area.

I will reach out to tech support at Fishman today and see what they suggest.

I've routed instruments for Fluence battery packs and 9v boxes - Given the Fluence li-ion pack and cable connector require more internal space, it would certainly be helpful to be able to run two preamps off the one battery. I look forward to reading what Fishman has to say about powering the Fluence and Powerchip preamps with one of their battery packs: This could prove encouraging to other Fly owners curious about installing Fluences, or alert them to a potential pitfall. We're entering uncharted territory for Flykind!

[fuzzbox-UK]

Here's an update on my project.

Overview:
I want to add Fishman pickups and a battery pack to my Fly Mojo. The guitar has been in the case for the last three years and I thought I would give it another try but with new active Fishman pickups. But first I want the guitar setup again by my guitar tech as there's a couple of fret buzzes and crackly tone pots. In the meantime, I contacted Fishman for confirmation of my re-work. I will complete all the electronic work.

Fishman agree with me that you can run the internal piezo preamp and the new active pickups from one battery. Just bear in mind that the current draw is greater and hence the battery life will be reduced or you may need to re-charge the battery pack more often. Makes sense.

Unfortunately for me, I can't get my guitar tech to do the routing. He said that it is too risky for him to attempt as he feels that he might ruin the finish plus he thinks the body looks too thin to add the new pickups. Ok, I thought, so I might go down the trim the pickup tags so they can match the existing pickups... But during my fret buzz check, my guitar tech noticed that there are at least 3 frets lifting. There's the buzz issue right there! My tech fixed them and now it plays better but it is still a little rattly... But I will need all the frets re-set at some point in the near future, it will cost more as they're glued on. So, after a day or so thinking about it... It's a no-go for the project. I will not be changing the pickups.

[mmmguitar]

Thanks for filling us in on the elements conspiring against you at the moment, @fuzzbox-UK, as well as confirming by way of Fishman support that one could power their Powerchip and Fluence preamps off a single battery, should they wish. Note that you're still free to swap any "trembucker"-spaced Duncans (or other brand pickups with 52.6mm spacing) into your Mojo by swapping or modifying the baseplates (as detailed with a Dimarzio-equipped Fly in this thread).

[fuzzbox-UK]

..Interesting... Food for thought. Thanks for the video.

At this moment in time, I do want an active pickup to add to my guitars.

[sevenstringer37]

Greetings Parker friends, somewhat related to this thread it without starting a new one…

I am looking to reattach a powerchip piezo preamp circuit in my Parker Maxxfly. The original passive Duncan pickups were swapped to active EMG (SA, SA,81) with 25k pots, piezo leads disconnected from the battery and circuit. Any insights to past EMG integrations like Parker was doing with the Adam D model?

To my understanding from reading the powerchip manual, both circuits can be powered together by one 9v battery. This would likely substantially shorten battery life in order to simplify the wiring and take advantage of the powerchips plug sensing circuit. I’m hoping to keep a separate 9v battery for the EMG and powerchip but don’t want to introduce more of a hassle. I was considering adding the extra EMG dedicated battery into a clip mounted in the existing cavity to avoid routing or cutting a new hole in the backplate. With separate batteries though, would this exclude the overall circuit sensing ability to disconnect the battery for the active pickups? Is it best to put a push pull 25k pot in either vol or tone position to disconnect the EMGs battery?

It seems that unlike the original Fishman preamp, the powerchip doesn’t need to remain powered for a passive (in this case active) pickup to still function, correct? Could there still be issue with three way toggle blending the active pickups and piezo signals? It’s not the usual passive 250k pots seen in various schematics…

I asked these questions to Fishman support as well, can add in their response when I receive it.

Thank you for your help!

[mmmguitar]

@sevenstringer37, there isn't a "sensor" disconnecting batteries to worry about. If you want to change batteries less often, then two 9 volts in parallel are what you want, with (possibly) no additional power switching required (just solder both -9V wires to the switch terminal of the jack, and make sure both batteries are sufficiently insulated/there's no short allowing either battery (-) wire an alternative path to ground while there's no cable plug inserted into the jack).

More in-depth explanation below, for the sake of anyone unacquainted:

In standard Fly wiring, the separate magnetic and piezo signals each pass through the preamp in series, and their buffered signals are outputted separately to two of the four terminals on the switching TRS jack: The buffered magnetic signal is outputted to the jack's "tip" terminal, and the piezo signal is outputted to the "ring" terminal. This allows for a stereo T/R/S cable plug to be used to keep the signals separate. When a mono T/S plug is inserted into the jack, the two signals converge; and are summed in mono. The preamp buffers the magnetic circuit signal specifically so that the two different signals will sound inoffensive when summed together in mono. The other two terminals on the jack include the "sleeve" terminal which acts as the ground connection, and an isolated terminal which gets connected to the sleeve terminal when a 1/4" jack plug is inserted - This is the battery switch terminal, and it works by completing the power circuit via connecting the battery (-) wire to ground when the inserted jack plug bridges the sleeve and battery switch terminals of the jack. The completion of this circuit allows the preamp to begin drawing current from the battery.

This is all for the sake of saying that the passive pickup signal is not outputted when the preamp is unpowered - That requires a preamp bypass mod utilizing a mechanical switch because; unfortunately, the Powerchip preamp doesn't contain an input bypass relay to disengage when powered on. Rest assured, nothing to do with the two active circuits being used together will defeat the "smart switching" of the Powerchip, provided all signal-carrying wires are utilized in the same way as with a passive magnetic pickup setup.

The active pickup preamp for the EMGs work in much the same manner as the Powerchip; requiring the battery (-) wire to connect to ground.

Because the max current of a 9 volt battery sufficiently exceeds the combined current draw demands of both preamps, you can power the two preamps off a single battery by connecting the battery (+) wire in parallel to each preamp power input (with power-on switching still performed via the single battery (-) wire at the jack. However - as you're aware -, this will result in the battery draining faster (though not necessarily twice as fast).

Concerning using two batteries: Though other preamp designs (e.g., the Graph Tech Acousti-Phonic) allow for 18 volt operation through having two 9 volt batteries wired in series, I couldn't turn up any info concerning the Powerchip being able to safely run on power in excess of 9 volts (we know, per page 11 of the manual, is that it utilizes a voltage doubler to bring its peak voltage up to 15v from a 9v input). And, though Fishman has diagrams showing that their Fluence pickups will run on 18 volts, I see only 9 volt power supplies used in Powerchip diagrams; including the 9v universal battery pack able to be used simultaneously with the Powerchip and Fluence preamps.

Even if using two batteries in series ends up being an option, the preamps using twice as much power will drain both batteries just as quickly as in a single battery, half-power setup - So the solution, where battery life is concerned, is in utilizing parallel, isolated power supplies for each preamp, with each battery's (-) wire soldered to the switch terminal of the 4 terminal TRS jack. So long as proper insulation is preventing either battery clip or battery casing from providing the other battery's (-) wire an alternative path to ground, the power circuit should remain uncompleted until a cable plug is inserted into the jack; powering on both preamps. Alternatively, you can route each of the battery (-) wires through a two pole switch to act as a cleaner on/off switch to avoid draining power if you leave the cable plugged in.