I will sell you my Parker but you can not touch the fixed vibrato sytem...

[rmrosa]

Hi, I am new to this forum! Very helpful! Thank you to all responsibles! I am on a quest of finding my first Parker . I am looking for a feather light Guitar, with a good clean sound. I am an acoustic Guy and when I play "electric magnetic pickup guitars" I play 90% of the time clean, cable straight to the amp only with a little reverb. Sometimes I use a little chorus and delay and for drive I take the amp or a modified "Tonehunter" Boss OD pedal. I would love to find a < 2.5Kg guitar that will accomplish this without compromising sound and playability. The natural choice would be I guess a Fly Mojo, but I believe because of the mahogany body and neck (I think), this will be on the heavier >3Kg side. In the meantime I am using a Gibson ES330 and an Ibanez ASR70 (I'd love to get the hands on a ASF180...), when my back hurts after playing my Ibanez AS2000 or Gibson ES135 standing up
So I found a pre 2000 "pre-refined" Fly Deluxe for an interesting price <1500€! With extra springs, tremolo bar, tools, original hard case. Has some scratches, dings and dongs on the painting, some rust on the bridge but all in all it looks OK.
I tried to schedule a meeting to go see, play and test the guitar. In the photos I don't see the vibrato bar and when I ask the seller, if he still has it, he tells me he has it but he asked his luthier to block up the bridge because he does not use the vibrato bar. He also tells me he uses .010 strings and I see a 0.11 spring installed. Strange... There are 3 extra springs .010,11 and 12. The first two look a little brown and rusty. The .012 looks good.
I tell the seller, I am OK with .011 but according to the manual the Guitar has 3 vibrato modes (fixed, bend down and balanced) and the guitar maybe in fixed mode but if you unscrew the balanced wheel it will go in bend-down mode. He tells me then, I can test the Guitar but not the vibrato bar. It can only be unlocked after setting it up to my taste?!
It looks to me as if something is wrong with vibrato system, eventually the balance wheel, or is using .010 strings with a .011 spring as his .010 spring does not look good...
What are your thoughts? A little to rusty right?

Best Regards
RR

[vjmanzo]

Hi @rmrosa and welcome!

It seems, to me, like the seller doesn’t use the vibrato and doesn’t want you to mess it up and then not buy it. We can read into the psychology of it a bit more, but the apprehension around the vibrato system is “a thing”—simple as that.

The rust doesn’t bother me.

If the guitar is intonating well with the heavier spring (which the seller is considering as a “block”) then that’s a good sign. I’d check Marc’s wonderful post about some things to inspect/check when buying a Fly.

[rmrosa]

Thank you for your answer! I already checked marc's post
But is it so difficult to set up the vibrato that one has to be afraid of messing things up?!
I read a post where an user was having trouble using the balance wheel, because it would not lock, could this be such a case and so you should not touch it and even ask a luthier to block it? My opinion is this things are there to be used, otherwise one should look for a non vibrato system or not?!
I

[vjmanzo]

Yes, I agree with you, but some people get phobic about the springs breaking, and are hesitant to use vibratos in general. It’s not unlike someone’s reluctance to adjust a truss rod themselves for fear that they’ll break it, I think.

[rmrosa]

Is it a big risk, does it happen a lot? I read the post here of a Fly resurrection dumped in the trash with a hole in the bridge section...

[vjmanzo]

Is it a big risk, does it happen a lot?

The springs can break, yes, and they’re all getting old and beginning to fail. What I’m trying to emphasize is that the seller’s apprehension probably has more to do with the unknowns of you playing it as opposed to the unknowns of the spring’s lifecycle.

[rmrosa]

In that case a non vibrato Parker Fly would be a safer investment, for someone not using the tremolo bar all that much... They seem to be lighter too, right? But also not as common as the vibrato ones I believe.
I am trying my luck on a vibrato deluxe one right now. It looks pretty good, but I will not be able to play it before buying it... Is $2.500 a reasonable price nowadays?

Thanks!

[vjmanzo]

Is $2.500 a reasonable price nowadays?

I think so—my personal opinion is that it’s not unreasonable if it’s in good condition—have you seen the “What’s This Worth” thread? Around $2,500 seems close to the going rate these days. Gonna go for it?

[Patzag]

What happened to the less-than €1500 guitar?

[vjmanzo]

What happened to the less-than €1500 guitar?

I was kinda curious about that myself

[rmrosa]

I am trying to go for it! The good condition Parker Fly for $2500 I found through the forum here. It is going to be hard work because the Guitar is in the US and I need to try to get it without having to pay over 20% in custom and tax fees including shipping prices - this is so stupid... It would be easier if it was already somewhere in Europe.

Regarding the under 1500€ Fly, the seller did not want to finish the deal. I think he was not comfortable with all the questions I was asking. As soon I was trying to get more in detail about the vibrato system he called the deal off. I guess there was something funny with the Guitar. All he wanted was to handover the guitar against the money and goodbye. Testing it? No way - José. So I think it was for the best

I read a little bit about some posts regarding Fly value speculation these days and although I am considering buying one for $2500 I think a fair value for an instrument to be played, not to be collected with no spare parts available anymore should be under $1500 in good play-ability shape, not even considering all the tremolo system problematic with spring costs and else. Funny is that in my Guitar Guide I bought in California back in 2012 a mint shape 2nd hand Parker Fly Deluxe was valued for $1350... Good times to buy a Parker.

Sadly to me these Guitars are eventually in a path of not being considered as an instrument to play daily but as a collectible.

Writing these posts and getting the seller's feedback is making me think I should probably wait for a good shape reasonable priced European <2,5Kg Parker Fly that seems not to be available at this time. The risk is I might never find it

I am also interested to know your experience with non-vibrato against vibrato Flys. Does the hardtail Fly feels like an inferior, budget version of the Vibrato one? I am getting a little afraid of the vibrato system with crazy old spring prices that may break easy and destroy a Guitar...

Thanks for your support

[vjmanzo]

Writing these posts and getting the seller's feedback is making me think I should probably wait for a good shape reasonable priced European <2,5Kg Parker Fly that seems not to be available at this time. The risk is I might never find it

No judgement—'cause we've all been there—but I have been hearing people say this exact thing about “the risk” for about eight years now. It's almost always by people who are looking to buy their first Fly. I think that when "getting a Fly" is on the forefront of someone's thoughts and they realize that there is some scarcity, the urgency to "get it soon" seems to follow shortly behind.

I think you’re right to consider waiting. The "seasoned" folks on this forum may agree that if you're patient, keep an eye open, and are ready to pounce when the listing appears you can get a good-condition Fly for a below-average price. Still. Even now. No lie! It's a matter of patience. I suspect that lots of Flys have changed hands at high-prices because of the sense of urgency that you're feeling now, so that is an avenue you can go, but you'll pay for the immediacy of having that Fly now. Your number of selections, however, increases every day that you wait patiently—easy for me say since I already have a few Flys, but I think it's the truth.

Buying through this forum, I think, is also good idea because we all have to face eachother in this community, so it's seemingly less-likely that you'll get duped. Alternatively, I'd buy your first Fly from a Reverb or eBay seller with excellent feedback as opposed to Craigslist. Here in the U.S., we have Guitar Center, which allows returns on used instruments within 45 days—perhaps there's something like that near you? The international fees thing is tricky, but not impossible to navigate, especially if there's some assurance that the person selling the Fly is trustworthy/experienced/engaged in the threads, etc. Having said that, though—plenty of good condition Flys show up in the EU regularly.

You can also post a Want To Buy (WTB) in the Classified section with a general location where you are and the price you're comfortable spending. This way, we can help you keep a lookout!

[Patzag]

To answer your hardtail question: Definitely not inferior. I play my hard tail as much as my Classic. And I LOVE it!

In Europe (where are you?) some Flys show up at less than US prices. Yes - you should be patient and keep a sharp lookout.
I'll message you also if I find a good deal.

Cheers,
Patrick

[Patzag]

Apparently in perfect shape:
https://www.mercatinomusicale.com/mm/a_ ... 11162.html

[vjmanzo]

Leave it to Pat to find good-looking Flys around the world!

[mmmguitar]

I visualize Pat wading through international guitar listing websites with a machete and pith helmet in the course of honing in on such treasures.

I suspect that lots of Flys have changed hands at high-prices because of the sense of urgency that you're feeling now

This concisely summarizes most of my rants in the “What is this worth?” thread. The practice of cultivating and rationalizing this false sense of urgency for the sake of a sale has been so successfully normalized in broader Parker Guitars discussions as to be presented as an unchallenged premise to all manner of deception. I’ve seen enough beater listings rely on it as a pitch that my brain now immediately interjects with “What is so wrong with this guitar that you’re trying to keep secret?.”

[rmrosa]

Thank you all for your feedbacks. I definitely do not want to be the next greater fool...So I followed vjmanzo's advice and I wrote a WTB post in the Classified section.

I have a question for you - Fly owners and experts:

Such color cracks and fretboard discoloration should/could be a no go sign?

Thanks!

[rmrosa]

Guess what I found another one for 1500€ but with the above mentioned paint cracks. I would very much appreciate your help here

[vjmanzo]

I see those paint cracks a lot in that area—usually they’re just paint and not an indicator of some thing failing structurally.

[vjmanzo]

…if you're patient, keep an eye open, and are ready to pounce when the listing appears you can get a good-condition Fly for a below-average price. Still. Even now. No lie! It's a matter of patience.

Like this 1700 euro Fly:
https://reverb.com/item/64241497-parker ... t=64241497


And look: only two weeks of “patience” required!