“What’s This Worth?” Thread

[DLQ]

It’s crazy how you just find these in the minutes before they’re gone

I have few other skills in life, but spotting good prices on Flys before they sell seems to be my calling!

Haha this must be the third or fourth one. I low key scan the usual places too, apparently never the right time.

[DLQ]

This has gotten me wondering today: the dude who sells the springs for 150 and also pretty regularly the guitars themselves; where does this seemingly endless supply come from? It seems like there is a spring a week listed.

Perhaps he also has the gift like VJ and I just never even see the guitars purchased; I’m the type that spends way too much time looking at guitars though so it feels surprising that I miss ALL of them!

[mmmguitar]

where does this seemingly endless supply come from?

Disposable income. The practice of selling “poached” Flys strung up with 9 or 10 gauge strings counterbalanced with an 11 or 12 spring was pioneered by this individual in the past year and a half, or so. Prior to mid-2020, Flys were commonly sold with between one and three spare springs included. The M.O. has been consistent:

1. Purchase Fly strung with common string/spring gauges (9 or 10, with any spare springs included being a bonus).
2. Purchase listed 11 and 12 gauge springs, regardless of cost ($75-$180).
3. Replace 9 and 10 gauge springs in purchased Flys with 12 gauge springs until you’re out of 12s. Then start installing the 11s.
4. List Flys outfitted with single 12 spring for twice what you paid
5. List springs taken from flipped Flys for whatever the price ceiling appears to be (as of today, the $172.22 spring listing apparently wasn’t moving fast enough; so it’s been marked down to $155). If it sells at that price, the budget for purchasing the next 11 or 12 spring listed by a third party is covered because demand tends to price them lower than than the 9 or 10 spring you just sold. Note that listing the spring after selling the guitar you took it out of is a crucial step; because it creates a situation in which you can potentially sell the parts back to the buyer of the guitar you stole the parts from, at extreme markup.

But it’s not an endless supply - In this case, it’s just a single person willing to pay anything for one Fly or accessory at a time; provided they believe they can flip it on Reverb for even more. This seems to be the sole reason one commonly sees a price disparity of several grand between eBay, Facebook Marketplace, and Reverb Fly listings.

And it’s not going to level out until buyers less-invested than flippers stop convincing themselves that Flys are financial investments. Even if “buy high” was sound investment advice, the flippers themselves are not willing to buy a single Fly at either the price or “poached” condition they list on Reverb - They’re buying up the competition’s supply on eBay and Facebook Marketplace, then passing that overhead on to their Reverb listings.

[sindrist]

Don't forget about the guitar cases which he also sells separately right afterwards...

[mmmguitar]

Don't forget about the guitar cases which he also sells separately right afterwards...

I had forgotten. I guess we’ll know the well is running dry once he starts publishing separate listings for the case handles, knobs, bars, strings, and batteries.

[DLQ]

Haha yes and thanks for the detailed post, but where is this stream of inexpensive or cheap Flys being found, to be marked up 2x? If there were so many around he would not be the only person doing it?

One time I recognized a Reverb purchase and flip (euro red deluxe with some cracks in the body?) but it really seemed hardly worth it.

[vjmanzo]

One time I recognized a Reverb purchase and flip (euro red deluxe with some cracks in the body?) but it really seemed hardly worth it.

I doubt it’s a business model for the sellers—I suspect it’s probably more of hobbyist thing; if you like buying guitars/Flys (guilty!) and trying out models you’ve not played, then the prospect of even a modest profit could justify the effort. If a few sales end up generating enough money to own one (instead of flipping it), then that could be fun. I don’t do this sort of thing myself, but I get the allure.

Of course, if you discover that the “crack in the body” is a bigger issue than you thought, then it could sour the whole experience for some people—it would for me!

[DLQ]

One time I recognized a Reverb purchase and flip (euro red deluxe with some cracks in the body?) but it really seemed hardly worth it.

I doubt it’s a business model for the sellers—I suspect it’s probably more of hobbyist thing;

I can see that, I’ve definitely been refining my collection and it seems on going. I wish I was locating what seems like a new Fly a week though too! Certainly GAS for them myself, the “rare” ones any how.

[vjmanzo]

So prior to @mmmguitar starting this thread (thanks, Marc!), this was a statement I had in the FAQ section:

If you are looking to buy a used Fly in good condition, budget between $1700 - $2500 depending on availability and condition; if you are willing to wait a month or two, and you keep an eye out for Flys on used market sites, you will very likely find one in that price range (this sentence last updated 3/2021).

I replaced that suggestion a while back with a link to this thread. There was some healthy discussion about that comment almost a year ago here with a few informal predictions about the used price of Flys (and presumably Fly components) staying up and potentially increasing even more.

It's difficult to know for sure what the "market" is without any actual data, but, as I’ve mentioned, lately, I’ve spotted a few gems in the “just north of $1k” price territory—I hadn’t seen any listings like that in a while. Seems like, once again, for $2k you can get a "good condition" Fly and it also seems (personal observation) that the selling prices on Reverb seem to be gravitating toward what they were about five years ago, and definitely not what they were one year ago!

Anyone else have the sense that $2k-ish can get you a "good" Fly these days (cheaper if you're on the lookout and ready)? <— it's a question I'm asked by friends looking to try/buy a Fly and, except for last year, I've been repeating the quoted rhetoric above for many years. Just curious what others think.

[mmmguitar]

I think the market’s reached that saturation point where nearly everyone who was going to own a Parker-branded guitar has bought one; with a lot of Fly listings sitting because the regular windowshoppers already own at least one (I type while looking at the pile of guitars someone will sell for peanuts after I die). I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the natural mahogany Fly listings on Reverb are all grouped together and staggered by +/-$1k, according to eagerness to sell.

We’ve also seen NiteFlys hit that point where several are or have been listed for more than Flys (even Guitar Center has caught on to this). I suspect word has gotten around that owning a NiteFly means not having to pray that a $175 rusted paper clip in your preferred gauge pops up on your Reverb feed. There’s also the (seemingly) relative ease with which NiteFlys may be modded and maintained, along with the stigma that Flys are essentially unrepairable once something goes wrong (something this site’s members know to be exaggeration in all but catastrophic cases of user error, listing fraud, or courier mishandling).

My California friend who still lusts for an Italian Plum Deluxe after playing a loaner twelve years ago was falling for the This Island Reverb listing practices; and lamented that he should have bought it then, due to seeing one listed for $3,500. I explained that Reverb listings aren’t as accurate an indicator of market value as they were prior to 2020, and directed him to the local (to him) $1,800 GC listing for the Plum Deluxe with the GK screw holes.

At the moment, anyone who wants to say they own a Fly can not only find one for around two grand, but seemingly find a duplicate listed right next to it that can be bartered with. But they’re limited to common SKUs, colors, and condition descriptions that simply aren’t moving; and require a fair amount of research and crossed fingers just to rule out any lemons that have been being passed around and pilfered of springs and accessories between the mid-‘00s and now.

So whenever an Artist, Nylon, S2, DF842, or 24 pop up on Reverb, I’m expecting them to sell quickly unless they’re being flipped for $5k+ (In which case, I know by name exactly which YOLO buyers are both being enticed and doing the selling).

Whether current resale trends represent an equilibrium of sorts, I can’t say. At this point, I won’t be surprised if (rare and unusual listings aside) Fly demand continues to stagnate until word gets around that new springs are available.

[mmmguitar]

Case in point: https://reverb.com/item/50121477-parker ... e-basswood

Note the conspicuously absent 9 spring. I’m looking forward to the $8k listing for this guitar in two months (minus case and bar, with a 12 spring installed).

[Droptune]

Hello everyone,

I have been keeping an eye out lately as I’m looking to purchase a Nitefly Mojo or a Fly Mojo. I am curious everyone’s thoughts on the two. I currently own a Nitefly but looking to upgrade. I’m looking at a Nitefly Mojo and Fly Mojo both around the $2K-$2.2K range currently. Firstly are these good prices assuming they’re in somewhat respectable condition? Do you guys see their values staying somewhat similar going forward or do you think one will eclipse the other? I’ve seen the Nitefly Mojo values increasing lately and as noted in a previous post I like how they’re a bit more serviceable.

[mmmguitar]

I currently own a Nitefly but looking to upgrade.

I know you’ve had your troubles with your NFV1, but a Fly isn’t necessarily going to feel like an upgrade unless you’re wanting the 24 frets and (potentially) lighter weight (I once owned an exceptionally hefty 8 lb Mojo).

As you say, the relative serviceability of NiteFlys seems to be why they’re eclipsing Flys in asking prices (at least until some new springs make their way into the market). But I can’t say whether a USM-era NiteFly Mojo will feel like an improvement over your Ken-era NFV1, either.

If you have the cash to burn, I’d suggest buying whichever you feel more comfortable reselling if you don’t bond with it. Your best chance of avoiding sales tax while saving the seller other fees would be to buy a guitar listed here or on Facebook Marketplace - But the Parker market seems to rest wherever the guitar that ticks the most boxes for you happens to be listed.

[Patzag]

Here is a nice Nite Fly Mojo
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Parke ... 7079521.gc
Decent price.

[vjmanzo]

Here is a nice Nite Fly Mojo
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Parke ... 7079521.gc
Decent price.

Missing a couple frets!!

[Patzag]

Missed that! Oy!

[Droptune]

I appreciate the suggestion! Unfortunately even if I wanted it, I wish more GC’s shipped to Canada lol!

Furthermore to my comments above, what is the primary difference between a Nitefly Mojo, and a Nitefly Mahogany? Is it simply just the pickups and the flamed top on some of the Mojos?

[Fly Rod]

I would imagine that some of you saw these tremolo springs & knobs on Reverb
Three used trem springs = 2 x10 & 1 x12 & the five pre refined rubber knobs
They were $799 a few days ago & must have become more extinct, so the price was raised to $999 + $1 S&H
Anybody that hard up for a used trem spring please look around
I bought a NEW .009" Spring from an artist in Nashville Tn because I didn't have one for $100
Here's the Link
https://reverb.com/item/50420070-parker ... gJQQPD_BwE

[mmmguitar]

Considering the radical price and description changes to the listing over the past week, I’m writing it off as parody until it sells. As silly as it is, demand for springs is going to keep increasing until someone takes the financial risk to produce more. Update: Terry Atkins (VP of Manufacturing for Parker under USM) subsequently had a NOS batch of 9 and 10 gauge-rated springs produced by Excel Spring and Stamping prior to the 2015 shutdown tempered and made available through his Reverb store.

[mmmguitar]

Butterscotch '00 Artist (152030BSS)

The “please purchase this outside of Reverb” Artist listing was ended. Now to see if the next one on Reverb is priced higher than $6,400 (before tax).