intonation problems? Fly Deluxe pre-refined...

[tamoore]

Hey guys. When I got my Parker fly deluxe (pre-refined) it was setup with the action so low it wasn't playable for me. I raised it to about 1/16". Now that I'm trying to intonate, I'm running out of forward saddle adjustment before the highest strings come in. On the high E, I'm 24 cents flat with the saddle piece all the way forward. The D and A strings are perfect with the saddles almost all the way forward, and the E string is good adjusted just a tiny bit back. The B and G strings are a bit better than the E, but still flat by 10 cents adjusted all the way forward.

The neck is close to perfectly straight. Am I missing something?
Thanks!

[mmmguitar]

What brand, gauge, tuning?

[tamoore]

What brand, gauge, tuning?

.009, bridge locked with a 10 spring. A=440 standard.

[vjmanzo]

Just chiming in for clarity, @tamoore: I think part of the reason why @mmmguitar asked about the string brand is because some brands of strings are inferior to others and the difference in quality and reliability can become more noticeable when working with intonation matters…not just on Flys, but in general.

The manual recommends D’Addario strings. Some string companies buy, repackage, and sell rejected strings from other companies, so while we can save a few dollars at the music store when we buy these strings, it’s best to rule these out as a factor during the intonation process.

#IntonationIssues #StringIssues

[tamoore]

Just chiming in for clarity, @tamoore: I think part of the reason why @mmmguitar asked about the string brand is because some brands of strings are inferior to others and the difference in quality and reliability can become more noticeable when working with intonation matters…not just on Flys, but in general.

The manual recommends D’Addario strings. Some string companies buy, repackage, and sell rejected strings from other companies, so while we can save a few dollars at the music store when we buy these strings, it’s best to rule these out as a factor during the intonation process.

I appreciate that. I think these are D'Addario. My normal brand is Ernie Ball I have dozens of other guitars that intonate with whatever guitar strings I put on them though. If this was 2 or 3 cents, I wouldn't be mentioning it. It's -24, and no more adjustment to be had. That doesn't sound like string brand.

Also, these are the same strings that were on the guitar that I thought were perfectly intonated (with a Snark tuner) when the action was set crazy low.

I'll put some new strings on it and check again.

[vjmanzo]

Understood, @tamoore; you’re right: in principle, you shouldn’t be that far off. Flys usually intonate without issues, which is why I thought it might be the strings themselves. If you’re in standard tuning with .009s then there a should be more than enough play available on the saddles.

Of note: a 10 spring should really be paired with .010s, but that shouldn’t create issues with adjusting intonation (only when trying to get the bridge to float properly).

Let us know if changing the strings fixes it for you!

[mmmguitar]

Is the high e intonating flat at every fretted note and harmonic other than the open string? Also, would you be willing to take photos of the bridge from above, below, and in profile on each side?

I was curious about the brand because even “good” ones can have duds. I once had a D’Addario NYXL D string from a 10-46 pack intonate 20 cents or so flat with the saddle adjusted all the way forward. After finally narrowing down the issue to the string itself, I replaced it with one of the same gauge from a different (and cheaper) set, and the problem was alleviated. I’ve not run into the issue with subsequent NYXL sets.

If it was a case of a single string such as the high e intonating flat with the saddle adjusted to the end of its “sharp” travel range, my suspicions would center on a divot or kink in the string, and/or the string coming unwound at the ball end. But being as it’s the three plain strings that are intonating flat, we can’t rule out the angle of the bridge itself. Is your Fly trem set to “down only” fixed mode, or with the spring tension tightened until it’s “hardtail” fixed? Is there wiggle room to pull the trem “up” against the step stop, raising the pitch of the strings, in fixed mode? Also, does moving the step-stop out of the way to allow the trem to float affect the intonation at all?

[tamoore]

Is the high e intonating flat at every fretted note and harmonic other than the open string? Also, would you be willing to take photos of the bridge from above, below, and in profile on each side?

I was curious about the brand because even “good” ones can have duds. I once had a D’Addario NYXL D string from a 10-46 pack intonate 20 cents or so flat with the saddle adjusted all the way forward. After finally narrowing down the issue to the string itself, I replaced it with one of the same gauge from a different (and cheaper) set, and the problem was alleviated. I’ve not run into the issue with subsequent NYXL sets.

If it was a case of a single string such as the high e intonating flat with the saddle adjusted to the end of its “sharp” travel range, my suspicions would center on a divot or kink in the string, and/or the string coming unwound at the ball end. But being as it’s the three plain strings that are intonating flat, we can’t rule out the angle of the bridge itself. Is your Fly trem set to “down only” fixed mode, or with the spring tension tightened until it’s “hardtail” fixed? Is there wiggle room to pull the trem “up” against the step stop, raising the pitch of the strings, in fixed mode? Also, does moving the step-stop out of the way to allow the trem to float affect the intonation at all?

It's set to down only, and I had the spring as tight as I felt comfortable tightening it - even uncomfortably tight - to the point the float-fixed switch wouldn't budge - with no change in the intonation. I haven't tried to use the float, because I'm not a trem guy, and I knew it had the wrong size spring. Two other photos coming...

[tamoore]

Side

[tamoore]

Back.
Thanks for the help guys.

[Patzag]

Was the nut replaced? Placed in the wrong position?

[tamoore]

Okay. I had a set of Ernie Ball 10's here and I put them on - and it's intonated perfectly. I didn't have to adjust anything - It just worked. I can't explain that, but I'll take it. Thanks for your willingness to help! I appreciate it!!!

[vjmanzo]

Awesome, @tamoore! Glad you're back in business!