intonation issues with heavy strings

[op3]

I’m having intonation issues with my classic. As an acoustic player with a heavy hand I’m probably asking a bit much but I do want to try because I love the Fly, feel, touch, and sound.

Strings are 11-52, tuned to Eb. Same as on my acoustics.

Original set up carried a #9 spring which I switched to a #10, and then an 11, but couldn’t get the intonation right so now I’ve removed the spring and blocked the trem.

I'm playing mostly below the 5th fret. Open strings are tuned true, fretted notes are usually sharp.

Still not getting the sweet spot with intonation and the intonation adjustments at the bridge aren’t having much effect in this case, which leads me to think there is a solution I am not recognizing, perhaps related to the original set up for light strings.

Any ideas?

thanks
Jim ~ . ~

[vjmanzo]

Hi @op3,

Welcome and thanks for posting; I have two Flys set up in drop B standard with 13s:

One with D'Addario EJ22 .013 gauge (13-56) strings and one with D’Addario EJ17 Phosphor Bronze .013 gauge strings.

Both are hardtails and both are intonated properly. I had to have my tech cut the nut slots slightly to compensate for the larger diameter strings and then it was just a matter adjusting the saddles—they’re really pushing it, but they’re where they ought to be.

D’Addario used to have a useful website at www.stringtensionpro.com, but it appears to be under construction. It would allow you to experiment with retaining the same “feel” and actual tension (in pounds) of one set of strings while adjusting tuning. If you plan to ever use the sprint again, that would be something to look at, which is why I mentioned it. In principle, it can work!

With the bridge blocked it should just be a matter of moving the saddles. Are the strings all flat or all sharp? Mixed?

#IntonationIssues #StringIssues

[mmmguitar]

Without having the guitar in front of me:

- If the 12th fretted notes and natural harmonics are intonated and in-tune with each other, and the 4th, 5th, and 7th fret harmonics across adjacent strings are in-tune, then the guitar’s intonation adjustment at the bridge is true and the temperament of the strings via the Sperzels have been achieved.

-If, at that point in the setup, notes within the first few frets are sharp, then my conjecture is that the notes are being pushed sharp by either fretting with high action at the nut or (much less likely) being a bit heavy-handed.

If you’re using the original Fly nut (likely slotted for 9-42 strings) with an 11-52 set seating higher in the slots than the original string gauges would have, this would cause the issue you’re describing. In that case, modifying the nut using the appropriate slotting files or fabricating a new nut would fix the issue.

If you’ve already tried all these and are still having the same issue, we can go from there - But a good tech will still diagnose the problem much faster than any of us speculating on this page.

[op3]

Thanks for the informative replies, it's good to hear others are having good results with even larger strings.

I'll work on these ideas tomorrow morning.
The nut slot issue seems a good place to start.
As mentioned, the strings are likely riding high in the slots, and that seems to fit the symptoms of what is happening when I fret a note....like the low string being the largest diameter is especially problematic, so that makes sense that it's getting stretched on the way to the fret.....

I live in a small town on a big wilderness island in Alaska, so the nearest tec is likely a thousand miles away in Seattle.
Still it might be worth shipping to get it done right once and for all, right now I really can't get what's in my head and that's frustrating.

I do have nut slotting files, we'll see what tomorrow brings.
Thanks for the advice.

Jim

[op3]

Success~

The string height at the 12 fret was .110, so I lowered the bridge to .080, and widened the nut slots for the heavier gauge strings.

The intonation is much better than before, though I seem to be out of intonation adjustment room on the bridge and a few strings are still not sounding quite like I want. I'm going to play around with tempering the tuning to the piece I'm working on.

I'm also looking to better define the individual strings, like the tones seem a bit muffled on some strings, where I need a sting, but I think that's mostly about learning the tube pre-amp better and not the guitar. We'll see how things settle in for a few days.

I understand the pickups can be raised and lowered as a whole, but can one also adjust the individual posts?
These are the original pickups on the 98 classic.

Many thanks!

I was sort of bummed when the old Fly site went down, I'm glad to see this new forum functioning at such a great level.

Jim ~ . ~

[vjmanzo]

Great to hear, @op3! Congrats! And yes: glad we’ve all found eachother here!

I’ve not experimented with raising and lowering individual pole pieces, but I believe you can do that by using a 3/32” hex driver—the same tool you’d use to adjust the whole pickup height. I could be wrong, but I think those pole pieces can be adjusted to some degree. Let us know?

[mmmguitar]

As with other double-screw Dimarzios, all the hex screws can be adjusted - It’s only the two mounting screws that are trickier to adjust due to pulling double duty in setting the height for the pickup.

[vjmanzo]

all the hex screws can be adjusted

Great to know, Marc; thanks!