“What’s This Worth?” Thread

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vjmanzo
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Re: Marc Wants To Buy...

Post by vjmanzo »

😂 thats some serious coin!

So...I think we can all agree that the real important question about market value is: 😉

Will this Fly (that’s been on and off eBay for many years!) ever sell?!

[Dead eBay Link]

I suspect this one of those listings that exist just to gauge market interest at the ever-increasing price-point; never a Buy-It-Now button, and only the option to place a bid at an above-average starting price. I wish I could see how long this listing has been in circulation; when I first noticed this listing, I think the opening bid was set at $1,999.99—that was many years ago.
Last edited by mmmguitar on Mon Oct 02, 2023 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: tidying up old dead links and logging serials
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Re: Marc Wants To Buy...

Post by DLQ »

I would be curious to know also about the Gen 1 availability; I too thought only the Gen 2 was currently in production and that a new Gen 1 is not attainable. I'd been debating whether or not to try to find a used set (maybe not for 400!). Does anyone know? I suppose I can call DiMarzio and maybe someone there would know. 

The only Gen 2 Fly I have is a Jazz model, and although I think the neck pickup is voiced differently than stock for this model, my general preference has been for Gen 1. 

And at the risk of fanning flames here, I also was interested in buying some knobs from the guy selling the pickups so I too said hello; looks like the price went up from free+postage to 80 shipped. Nice score.
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Re: Marc Wants To Buy...

Post by vjmanzo »

yes, DiMarzio still has the specs on how they made the Gen 1s, and, if you ask them, they’ll wind them for you. At least, that was the case as of a year or so ago.

The knobs are a catalog item we’ve sourced from Davies Moulding in the Anatomy page though they are not all black unfortunately. They’re a $1 part, so if getting something non-OEM is on the table, I think that’s the way to go. Alternatively, Mike G. may have those knobs in his stock.
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Re: Marc Wants To Buy...

Post by DLQ »

Nice thanks
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Re: Marc Wants To Buy...

Post by vjmanzo »

👍🏻
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Alejandro
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Re: Marc Wants To Buy...

Post by Alejandro »

vjmanzo wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 2:02 pm Are you looking actually for a set of Gen1 pickups, or were you making a joke?
@vjmanzo VJ I have a deluxe with a near-dead neck pickup (1997, Gen1). It's almost dead. You can hear a faint sound with distortion. If I leave the tone clean, you can't hear the pickup. I'm not sure what is causing it. I'm thinking there may be a bad wire in the pickup, but I don't know how to test that hypothesis. Do you have a neck pickup I can buy?
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Re: Marc Wants To Buy...

Post by vjmanzo »

Hi alejandro, I don’t, sorry, but I’d make a new “Want to Buy” request/post in the classifieds section if it must be an OEM Gen 1 pickup. 👍🏻
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Re: “What’s this worth?” thread

Post by vjmanzo »

Great post, Marc--thanks for doing this. I've made this a sticky and linked it from the FAQs.

I'll also add, preemptive of other replies, that the original Parker Guitars list prices can be found here.

Previously, the FAQs contained some narrative about the ballpark price range of decent-condition Fly being between $1750 and $2300; patience and speed/readiness to buy being the key. I think we can all agree that most (all?) used guitar asking prices increased during the pandemic including Flys; that tend seems to have subsided--not tons of data points, but the near-mint '98 Fly Classic w/case going for $2175 with the option to "Make an Offer" suggests a sign that the $4k+ asking prices may have been a blip...
mmmguitar wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:19 pm -NiteFlys are ranging from sub-$1k into Fly prices (Even Guitar Center is asking $2k+ for some NiteFlys).
I'd like to just note, respectfully, that Guitar Center and many other brick-and-mortar stores frequently mistake NiteFlys for Flys, Flys for P-36s, and so on.
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Re: “What’s this worth?” thread

Post by mmmguitar »

Bump. TL;DR Version: Which Fly colors seem to be selling, and what are my saddles and humbuckers worth?

Two orders of business: I’d like to highlight two recent listings and contrive some significance from them, and try to establish a value for Fly saddles and pickups:

2014 DF824 (P1409011), with Graph Tech Hexpander 13 pin-out.

[Dead eBay Link]

I’ve previously made reference/rant to this phenomenon: Reverb is the place to find $5k+ Flys, and eBay the place to find Flys more realistically priced.

The high Reverb prices can be directly attributed to a single seller and their MO to buy a Fly, remove the spring, relist the Fly for more than 200% profit, then list the spring separately for $160+. This splash in the very small pool that Parker sales represent in the used market has seemingly resulted in Guitar Center, as well as other Reverb sellers, taking the ambitions of an individual to signify a dramatic increase in market value for all Parker-branded products and parts.

If I may be forgiven for invoking the Thomas theorem: The situations that the Parker Guitars community defined as real have become real in their consequences. I’ve observed Fly owners from within this community list their Parkers on Reverb specifically because they’ve observed that their guitars can be sold for hundreds (and seemingly thousands) more than they’d realistically expect from listing on this site or eBay.

Which brings me to the eBay listing: Despite the linked Fly being “priced to move” in comparison to recent Reverb listings, it did not receive a single bid. In fact, we have several listings on eBay and Reverb that have been sitting at the $1.9k-2.4k mark for months and years. There seems to be a great disparity in perceived value between Flys of all eras, based solely on the perceived color rarity and SKU rarity. I’ve not seen a rootbeer Fly in some months; hence I expect to see the next one listed specifically on Reverb, and specifically in excess of $3k. However, several cherry Fly Classics have been sitting at around the $2.2k mark for many months.

So let’s try and list some Parker finishes and SKUs that owners seem to feel command high resale prices, contrasted with those that seem to be sitting/selling for much less:

High asking prices, fast sales: Lime gold, tangerine, solar flare, white, taxi yellow, rootbeer, heather gray, silver, teal, transparent blue, as well as all Artist and Supreme SKUs. The comparatively low production numbers of DF824 and 42 SKUs seem to now ironically command the highest asking prices, after their introduction led to the death of the brand.

Lower asking prices, slower sales: Italian plum, majik blue, antique gold, cherry, metallic red, emerald green, dusty black.



Secondly, my house and garage look like a Guitar Center exploded. I’m hoping to consolidate and better organize all the gear and parts I have laying around; and that includes offloading some Fly parts:

I have six Fishman saddles from my ‘11 Supreme that I know I’m not going to use, as well as the Gen 2 Dimarzios from the same guitar. Though I have a few other odds and ends I’ll address in a later post, I feel the value of the mentioned parts are easiest to discuss:

A set of Graphtech Fly saddles can seemingly be scored from between $90 and $106, with the latter seeming to be the Minimum Advertised Price (hereafter referred to as MAP) set by Graphtech. Would anyone object to the Fishman saddles being listed at parity; with a value of 1/6th of $106, each?

The Gen 2 Dimarzios, still in production, seem to have a MAP of $160 for a set. Let us therefore discuss how much a used set may be expected to depreciate: 10, 20, 30 percent? Would Gen 1 pickups be expected to be equal in value, or priced much higher in accordance with trends amongst Reverb sellers (bearing in mind that the buyers were essentially paying to avoid ordering whatever Fly pickups they wanted direct from Dimarzio)?
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market from 2020 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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Re: “What’s this worth?” thread

Post by vjmanzo »

mmmguitar wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:54 pm Reverb is the place to find $5k+ Flys, and eBay the place to find Flys more realistically priced.
I think you’re right. Also, I have heard, now, from numerous inside sources that Reverb actively employs ways to inflate listing prices.
mmmguitar wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:54 pm …a single seller; whose MO is to buy a Fly, remove the spring, relist the Fly for more than 200% profit, then list the spring separately for $160+.
Yeah, I’m less bothered by the steep markup as I am by the seller selling the guitar with a spring he knows isn’t appropriate. I understand how capitalism works. To me, however, that’s dishonest.
mmmguitar wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:54 pm Despite the linked Fly being “priced to move” in comparison to recent Reverb listings, it did not receive a single bid.
Yes! I have observed this for years, but, compared to Reverb prices, it is quite a different market.
mmmguitar wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:54 pm
So let’s try and list some Parker finishes and SKUs that owners seem to feel command high resale prices, contrasted with those that seem to be sitting/selling for much less:
I don’t have an accurate sense of this, so I’d love to hear others weigh in. I think this fluctuates—to me, for a while there, the Italian Plum seemed like a high-demand Fly and those DF824s seemed commonplace.
mmmguitar wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:54 pm Would Gen 1 pickups be expected to be equal in value, or priced much higher, as we’ve seen Reverb sellers do?
Again, I don’t have a clear sense of what people (our fellow members included) think when they see Fly parts for sale; do you remember that set of Gen 1s going for like $300? Is that an “I want the OEM pickups” thing or is that more of a “I prefer that specific sound” thing? If that latter, I think a $300 budget can get you a great custom set of humbuckers.

🤔
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Re: “What’s this worth?” thread

Post by Fly Rod »

I have noticed in my QUEST for parts & I am always seeing the Parker Flys for Sale that the prices on eBay are usually cheaper by $50 than Reverb
Also noticed if the the same PARTS are for sale at each venue they will be cheaper on Reverb than eBay, Just something I noticed while looking.
Have a good look & see here.
https://reverb.com/marketplace?make=par ... Parker+Fly
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... _sacat=619

Gary @ The Wood Shed Music, Grab Your Ankles :D

YUMMY Case CANDY!!
***Happy Halloween***
:lol:
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Re: “What’s this worth?” thread

Post by mmmguitar »

Fly Rod wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:12 am Thought I'd give a link to this seller who is also a Forum Member Here.. If I'm WRONG by "Calling Him Out" then I'll Fix it
For what it’s worth: I haven’t linked to/called out named sellers (even if I disagree with what I perceive their motives to be) because I don’t know what their personal circumstances are. The listings themselves aren’t fraudulent - nor do they seem to violate Reverb’s terms and conditions (in which case, a PSA post concerning a particular seller and associated signs of fraud from them to look out for would be most welcome).

There are also Reverb sellers who seem to see one high asking price in a listing, then assume that their “mint” example must be worth at least as much as that other person was asking; which establishes a trend in this small pond of the market. Once you throw a particular seller under the bus, discussion has a way of veering into the weeds of whether or not they fall under the “actor” or “reactor” category of motive in establishing this trend - Which seems (to me) less productive than noting the trend itself in the broader discussion.

As VJ says, it’s the dishonest-seeming practice of the individual parting these flipped Flys out before they resell what remains which irks us (rather than a capitalizing individual merely “flipping” each guitar in the state they received them).

I’ll defer to VJ’s judgment/dictation of policy on the matter of whether linking to an individual’s posts on this site, in the context of civil discussion of how they’ve affected resale trends, is considered fair game or unnecessary attack.
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market from 2020 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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Re: “What’s this worth?” thread

Post by Fly Rod »

Fixed it!! But saved all that info, Anyone can find it BTW
Now that post is worthless
Let It Be

Hey my rebuilt Fly Deluxe must be worth $3000+ :roll:
My Saddles are worth $600 :o
That would easily buy all the Graph Tech Parts to make it an Experimental Midi Fly RARE!!
Easily worth $5000 in this Scalpers Market

Super Duper Super Rare Prototype Deluxe Supreme Pinky Midi Fly iGuitar 1.13 w/Extra Mojo Stealth DiMarzio+ Model :D
Like My Gibson Les Paul Studio Lite w/ M-III Electronics
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Re: “What’s this worth?” thread

Post by shredmiyagi »

So.... what's the going rate on a Spanish Fly, if one ever shows up? :lol:
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Re: “What’s this worth?” thread

Post by mmmguitar »

shredmiyagi wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:45 pm So.... what's the going rate on a Spanish Fly, if one ever shows up? :lol:
There are a few people here gunning for one, and I think they’re all prepared to pull the trigger the moment they see it, regardless of cost. I wouldn’t be surprised if one ends up selling for anywhere from $3k to 5k, at the moment. I just tell myself (and my wallet) that the nylon sounds I get out of my Roland gear driven by a Fly are “good enough.”
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market from 2020 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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Re: “What’s this worth?” thread

Post by Fly Rod »

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Re: “What’s this worth?” thread

Post by vjmanzo »

mmmguitar wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:14 pm I’ll defer to VJ’s judgment/dictation of policy on the matter of whether linking to an individual’s posts on this site, in the context of civil discussion of how they’ve affected resale trends, is considered fair game or unnecessary attack.
Thanks, @mmmguitar and @FlyRod; I appreciate this dialog. It seems like, fundamentally, we’re talking about a practice we consider to be in poor taste, and I feel we should leave room for the party/parties to consider our consideration and decide what to do in the future without explicitly pointing to particular practices. In a best-case scenario, we’ll all feel at liberty to change our minds. The internet is full of people calling eachother out, and I think we can keep help keep this a safe place by making everyone feel welcome, even if we disagree with their views and actions.

I agree with Marc that discussing trends is the best approach, and, of course, I feel we are all absolutely allowed to gripe about the scarcity of Fly Nylons and shout jealous profanities at any member that scores one! 😉
mmmguitar wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:27 pm I wouldn’t be surprised if one ends up selling for anywhere from $3k to 5k, at the moment.
I got mine for $2,800 I think—and Gary’s averaged selling value is still way below the $4,139-$4,900 they sold for new! I love mine and I’d never sell it, but I will say that, if you’re looking for a comparable instrument, you can dial in a similar sound from a Godin Multiac; it doesn’t perform/feel like a Fly, but it’s a very respectable instrument sound-wise.
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Re: “What’s this worth?” thread

Post by shredmiyagi »

Yeah. I have a Godin nylon, which is a great guitar.

My 2 Parker Flys were dear to me but I regretfully sold them in a weird mental joust concerning their tone. Thought I'd leave behind the Parker world but I did get along exceptionally well with the necks and bodies.

I've been on/off hunting for an early Spanish Fly for almost 7 years and either never had the money when one came up or couldn't find one available. Ah well; one of these days.
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Re: “What’s this worth?” thread

Post by Dingus »

Interesting thread for sure! 90 percent of the Parkers we buy come in two flavors so I'll address those.

My 2 cents. Assuming excellent condition with 9 spring installed, out the door including tax and shipping (no more than a couple MINOR dings). Don't even think about excellent if you had a roland pickup attached lol.

1 - Pre-refine deluxe normal color, hardtail or not - 2500-3000 (leaves room for really great condition and addition of hardshell case). Now many people will already disagree and say that hardtails should bring a bit more). I don't get the logic here. I'd personally rather have one of the best tremolos on the planet. Though hard tail is nice occasionally and you don't have to worry about the springs.

Cool color eh? Ok, add 500. NO MORE!
S2? - Plus 500-750

2 - Post-refine deluxe hardtail or not - All same

Fly Mojo - +250 - 500 for flame top

I'm not sure how you define the period when the headstock changed but you can count me out on those models. I've owned a couple and the necks are too chunky for me. The quality seemed fine just not what I look for in a Parker. If I'm paying for one of these -500 off the top. I'll still buy em if the price is right don't get me wrong.

I love ALL the funky Parkers out there with special woods and special finishes but to me, I'm never gonna pay 9k because it's got a koa top. I understand for peoples collection why they spend that just understand it's for your collection lol. It damn sure is not 6k superior to an already superior fly! 5K is my hard limit because I know what I can get for 6k. I can have an ALL carbon fiber instrument from head to fucking toe front and back for 6k from the best builder on the planet!

Why do I feel Parkers are worth this kind of money? I've got 37 guitars in my collection currently and have had my hands on a ton more. I've got half vintage and half boutique guitars. The only thing that comes close to the quality, playability and sound of a Parker is 6k and up boutique instruments. Watching some of those videos here of the Parker factory drove that point home where he says it took 36 hrs to build a Parker vs 8 for a les paul and 5 for a strat. We will never ever see production instruments like this again. Close as you'll find is an Aristides. When I think about that, what are these guitars really worth? Knowing what I know now, probably more than we all want to pay and it will only get worse. I feel like as long as I have 5 Parkers in my collection, I feel safe and covered for a lifetime. I've spent well over 100k trying to find something better and it's just not out there folks. I'm thankful that most people have never touched a Parker and never would because they think they're ugly. Let's keep it that way!
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Re: “What’s this worth?” thread

Post by mmmguitar »

I thank everyone who has so far contributed their “2 cents” to this discussion; and hope more yet will share their conjecture and experience. The well-put insights from Dingus regarding sellers now rationalizing the “best kept secret” novelty of the Fly as justifying increased asking prices, as well as Gary’s fun illustration of how sellers rationalize the value of their beater Fly based on a presumed “potential-for-greatness”, are head games that have become essential considerations for sellers and buyers.

Does anyone have more to add to Dingus’ points regarding how much the condition or specs of a particular Parker guitar should reasonably add or detract from its resale value? As I recall, VJ and I are in a boat where our respective preferences for neck profile thickness is a consideration when we’re browsing post-Ken era listings (and one of the driving reasons for me to try a DF842, should I ever find one).



Here’s an interesting case from the Facebook groups:

1999 Trans Hazelnut Maple Classic (014039BMA)

And its twin (264039BMA).

One sells for a bit over $2k after taxes, and the other for $5k+, after shipping and taxes. The (quite recent) buyer is currently selling the $5k Fly at a loss ($4500 privately, $4750 on Reverb). It’s clear that the sellers are thinking $$$ - But what are some of these buyers thinking? Is it a testament to their disposable income, or their gullibility? Are they telling themselves they’ll flip a $5k Fly for $10,000 next year?
Summary of the Parker Guitars speculator market from 2020 onward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
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