Balanced String Set/Bridge Issues

[Voice Of Reason]

Hello all,

I used to be an occasional Parker Forums member and eventually bought (back in 2007) a 98 Fly Classic (I still have). I'd like to keep it in top working condition, thus any help would be greatly appreciated.

The problem: I cannot get the high E action low enough to be acceptable (i.e. 2.0mm min) without having the bridge looking as it is (see picture). The culprit seems to be the spring/string gauge (hopefully). (The low E is a tad over 2.5mm ; any lower = buzzfest).

N.b. The neck is straight. Tuning is in standard at the moment (used to be half a step down which did not make the issue as apparent).

1. Is there any long-term risk to have a bridge so unbalanced long-term (see picture)?

2. Which string set were Parker guitars referring to for an 11 spring (I only have 11 springs)?
I am willing to try a more balanced set (but knowing beforehand which set would help, i.e. 11-52, 11-48, etc.). *
* Would even a 10-48 set work ok with an 11 spring? I'm talking about Ernie Ball's Ultra Slinky (.010, .013, .017, .028, .038, .048) or even Mega Slinky (.0105, .0135, .0175, .028, .038, .048).

I would prefer these last two to using 11s for the higher strings.
I am using the term in down-mode only.

Thank you for any help!

[DLQ]

Are you using 10s with an 11 spring right now? I learned this on this forum but apparently the springs were tested manually/individually at the factory, and I have had an 11-labeled spring that balanced well with 10s. I suppose it can depend.

Are you adjusting the action with the 2 Allen screws in the back? Have you tried loosening the tension on the trem with the wheel?

[Voice Of Reason]

Hello,

Yes I am using a set of 10-52 with an 11 spring. Yes, I did adjust the action with the two allen screws and used the tension wheel (according to the Fly manual).

I just wonder how much of a tilt the bridge should (or can) be at when adjusting action (as per the photo in my original post).

I do hope the neck isn’t warped (somehow).

[vjmanzo]

Hi @Voice of Reason; in principle, there’s nothing wrong with the bridge like that—I have a Fly like that. However, that same Fly has some neck issues. It’s not a big deal once it’s set up and working, but, in addition to @DLQs thoughts, I’d just add:

-Check to see that bridge floats properly and that there’s not a gap between the three-ridge plate and the step stop
-check that the nut slots are not cut too deep

In principle, if the spring floats properly, you can assume it’s okay; here’s a guide you may have seen. However, if you’re just interested in bend-down only mode, you can add extra tension to the spring by tightening it a bit more.


Does it play okay in its current state? Sounds like you’re just trying to verify that you don’t mess something up. Is that right?

#SpringIssues #StringIssues

[mmmguitar]

+1 to the other replies. I can also confirm that any light/heavy gauge string set can be balanced with a spring rated one higher (e.g. 10-46 can be balanced with either a 10 or 11 spring, whereas 10.5-50, 10-52, etc. *should* be within the acceptable tension range of a 10 - but I’d personally err on the side of using an 11 with them if I had one). I used 8-38, 8-46, and 9-46 sets with a 9 springs for years before deciding that a 10-46 set was what felt best on my Flys; at which point I started using “10”-rated springs.

[Voice Of Reason]

Hello,

Yes, I’m mainly checking if it’s a cause for concern.

While the action is high enough (can’t lower it any more) , it plays fine otherwise.

N.b.I did readjust the spring/step stop/trem. All works well enough otherwise.

You mention you have a Fly with a bridge setup like that. May I ask what is/are its neck issues? For instance, can Fly necks warp? I would have thought it was extremely rare, but I’m just trying to narrow the possibilities down.

[vjmanzo]

You mention you have a Fly with a bridge setup like that. May I ask what is/are its neck issues? For instance, can Fly necks warp?

Yes, of course: it’s a 2007 Fly that I bought used; I played with it for years with very low action and the bridge set up like that. Eventually, I brought it to my tech for a proper setup and we realized that the main issue was that the truss was maxed out yet the neck still had too much up-bow (I play with 10s). We fixed the problem by clamping the neck in the manner @Ken Parker described in this post. I’ve actually fixed a few Flys from various eras with that approach, so, in my mind: it’s a thing, but it’s not a disaster.

That fix made the whole process of setting it up much easier, but there definitely was/is an issue with this neck, and it was probably an issue from day one for this guitar. Regardless, it plays okay now and with very low action, but if I want to set it up with a different gauge of strings, I think I can only go down (to 9s) and I would never even dream of putting heavier strings on it.

[Voice Of Reason]

Thank you all for your help.

It's in the shop right now to further inspect for truss rod issues and any potential warping.

I've also bought a more balanced string set (D'Addario XL, .011 - .049) to see if it could help balancing the tension on the bridge.

[Voice Of Reason]

Here's an issue the tech found... the 20th fret is higher than others. Seems like a fret dress is in order.

Just hope his tools won't be destroyed. I'm reading that these stainless steel frets are even harder than those available today.

[vjmanzo]

the 20th fret is higher than others. Seems like a fret dress is in order.

It happens, even on Flys! Ken's goal was to make it so that, during production, the frets would go on perfectly level, and that's fairly close to the results they achieved, but nothing is perfect and sometimes things change shape, so, in my book, the need for a fret-level isn't unusual or a sign of anything too alarming.

Just hope his tools won't be destroyed. I'm reading that these stainless steel frets are even harder than those available today.

Yes, our frets are made of the salvaged ships of the aliens Will Smith battled in Independence Day, but the amount of material your tech will need to remove is minimal, so a regular sanding block will be fine. If you had to cut those frets (even from the spool) it's a real struggle with anything except for a diamond carbide blade...ask me how I know

Good luck and keep us posted!!

[Voice Of Reason]

The Fly ended up having a very pronounced backbow and weird warps in two different sections. The backbow has been fixed. The tech says the warping is just odd (only) in the first few frets, while also higher up the neck. There were a few higher frets which have been dressed.

I never fiddled with the truss rod (only authorized Parker repair techs did year ago and has never signalled any issues). Even in storage, the thing just stayed in tune for years... in other words, it stays indoors and did not face significant temperature fluctuations. I'm not sure when the neck decided to tango.

Action is now 0.070" (bass) and almost 0.060" (treble) (any lower wasn't working). The bridge still looks like it was (see photo).

It does play better (so far). Not sure putting a more balanced tension set was a good idea, but we will see down the line.

Unfortunately, I now have issues with the trem not working as well as it used to... I've adjusted it as well as I could with the info from the manual/this forum (I use it in down-mode only).

I can't get that G string to stay in tune no matter the setup/string gauge/etc. (it was never perfect before, but it is much worse now). Big bends nut sauce and lots of stretching does not help unfortunately.

How many have had success with their original Fly trem system always coming back in tune with double stop bends/bending?

[vjmanzo]

Hey @Voice Of Reason—thanks for the update. I had some issues with the Fly vibrato returning to zero, and the culprit was, in fact, that the nut slot for the G string was cut too narrowly for the set of 10s I was using. I had that fixed and it solved the issue.

I know you’re just using “bend down” mode, but when you set up the bridge, are you able to get the bridge to maintain its tuning when you switch the step stop up and down?

[Voice Of Reason]

Hi @vjmanzo,

Yes, the bridge maintains its tuning when switching to balanced mode (as long as I don't use the trem).

I did bump up gauge slightly, so the nut could indeed be the culprit.

However, it had been replaced before (and cut properly for the correct string gauge). I never managed to get that G string perfectly back to pitch regardless. What I'd like to avoid (also) is messing up the nut to the point where I need yet another replacement. In fact, I'm only using a balanced string gauge set because of the issues (and spring) I have had (an 11). Not sure if it helps, but having an unbalanced string gauge for so long (10-52) on an 11 spring, is the only thing I can think that could have contributed to the issues.

I will have to bring her back in.

So, no G string issues with double stop bends/bending on the Fly?

It's always the G string that's the culprit (at least on most other systems)!

Thanks.

[vjmanzo]

Hi @vjmanzo,
Yes, the bridge maintains its tuning when switching to balanced mode (as long as I don't use the trem).

Okay that’s a great sign! We just want to rule out the spring (a failing spring) as a contributor to the problem. If the spring was failing, you’d have difficulty getting it to float properly. The vibrato system in our Flys is a great design, so as long as nothing is messed up with one of those components, my money is on the string getting bound up somewhere

I think it’s worth having this guitar set up with the strings you’d prefer as opposed to switching strings to accommodate a fault somewhere in the system. I’d ask a tech to take a look at all of the nut slots and see if they’re all cut properly; cutting a nut well takes skill, so if you need a recommendation for a good tech for that, let us know where you are and, perhaps, we can recommend someone local.

[Voice Of Reason]

Thank you @vjmanzo

I’ll let you guys know when the nut has been filed properly.

[mmmguitar]

I’ll be surprised if it’s anything more than the nut. The G detunes more than any other string with trem use; so the nut slotting is especially unforgiving.

[Voice Of Reason]

I couldn't get the action low enough without buzz after my tech's setup/fret levelling - I ended up adjusting it to 0.080" (bass) and 0.070" (treble).

Since the Fly resonates so much, everything was overly amplified. I just can't deal with all the buzzing (even if there were no dead notes).

I ended up stringing her back with my previous gauge. I can now get the action to 0.090" (bass) and 0.070" (treble) without any buzz. I didn't fiddle with the truss rod. Relief is minimal and hope it stays that way.

Oddly enough, the bridge is now less titled then it even was before... (see photo).

Some things you can never fully understand. I'm not sure how the neck developed a backbow in the first place. I'll be keeping a closer eye on the neck for sure.

[Voice Of Reason]

So I recently bought a feeler gauge as I can't rely on techs for all things. I read the Fly has a built-in relief and that the neck can be set straighter than on most (electric) guitars.

Adjusting (over several days) the relief of the neck (was about 0.15 at the 9th fret, now is 0.06) has been helpful in decreasing the overall tilt of my bridge.

I read (on another thread) that the fly is set with a 0.09 relief at the 5th fret. I'd like to set it to that and avoid fiddling with the truss rod until then.

Could VJ (or anyone else who knows) please confirm how is this measure taken (capo @ first fret, etc.)?

Thanks.

[vjmanzo]

I can check some of my records for the official factory setup method for these things.


In the meantime, here’s my ideal Fly setup with D’Addario 010’s if that helps:
-the action is set to a little lower than 4/64” at the 24th fret
-the neck relief at .012”
-the string height at the nut is .010” when pressing the 3rd fret

The 4/64” action height is the open string height.
Neck relief is measured with a straight edge or by pressing the first and last fret and the relief is the middle point between the first and last fret (whatever fret that is depending on your scale length)

[Voice Of Reason]

I can check some of my records for the official factory setup method for these things.


In the meantime, here’s my ideal Fly setup with D’Addario 010’s if that helps:
-the action is set to a little lower than 4/64” at the 24th fret
-the neck relief at .012”
-the string height at the nut is .010” when pressing the 3rd fret

The 4/64” action height is the open string height.
Neck relief is measured with a straight edge or by pressing the first and last fret and the relief is the middle point between the first and last fret (whatever fret that is depending on your scale length)

Thanks!

I'll leave the relief as it is (for now) and will keep checking the neck for any issues. Guess there's no point in trying to set the neck any straighter.

I guess I need to leave my action higher because some neck warping and my pick attack. While I pick rather hard, I don't think I do so abnormally. I just can't get something lower than 0.90" (bass) and 0.70" (treble) without significant buzzing. I’ll live with it (albeit it's a tad higher than my other electrics).

I suppose the action mentioned in the Fly manual was intended for 9-42s.