New User- Looking for solutions

[RMCasey]

I have a 98 Fly Deluxe that has been in my closet for several years. I decided to try to fix it again. When looking up stuff... I came across this group and love the idea! I've always said that the Fly was my slickest playing most comfortable guitar. I just can't get the electronics to work anymore. No sound whatsoever. I want to say I was getting Piezo sound only a few years back when I gave up. Now... nothing. The battery was corroded... I cleaned it... It's far enough away from the other electronics (and in it's own compartment) so that shouldn't have affected anything. Getting a new 9v to try the Piezo again today.

I'd love to try to fix it myself but don't know where to start. I'm gonna dig through the materials here but under the hood this thing looks more like a computer... than a guitar! If anyone has some starter advise please let me know.

There used to be a semi official Parker repair site in Chicago but I forgot the name of it. Do any of you know the name of that place and it it is still fixing Parkers?

Thanks,
Ryan

[vjmanzo]

Hi Ryan! Welcome!

We can absolutely try to help. I’d recommend putting on a pot of coffee and reading through the FAQ page (as you suggested) and then beginning to look at the wiring guides for your Fly.

There are only a handful of things that could be wrong, and the most common culprit is that something is damaged with the flex PCB of your Fly (the thing that looks like a computer). It’s not a lost cause if it is damaged and we are working on making more of these flex PCBs available, but it will be some time before we have that all worked out.

In the meantime, see if you can give us an assessment of what is still working in your Fly and we can go component by component through the signal chain. Others have troubleshot similar issues before, so you’re not alone here, and we’re here to help!

[RMCasey]

Thanks!

New 9v battery has returned sound out to the guitar!

So I was wrong... I have sound from the magnetic pickups now but nothing from the Piezo.

Here is what works...

The Battery indicator flashes to let me know we are good there.

Master Volume= Works Fine

Magnetic Pickup Selector= Works fine in all 3 positions
Magnetic Tone and Volume= Appear to work fine (however I cant get a decent distorted sound to save my life... i may have to raise the pickups)

Pickup System Selection Switch= Seems to work fine... but I only get sound from the Magnetics and Combination setting... nothing from the Piezos setting

Piezo Volume and tone = Nothing... I get no sound from the Piezo

The Stereo / Mono switch seems to be working but I only have a mono cable. It is acting like it should with only having the mono cable plugged in.

I know it's been a while but the there is little gain even coming out of my Friedman BE100. I dont remember adjusting the pickup height before but it's been so long... I just don't know. Is this common?

Thanks for any and all feedback!

[vjmanzo]

Thanks @RMCasey; are you sure you have the red button in the correct position for the cable you're using? The red button switches between split signals (piezo on ring and mags on tip) if you're using a TRS cable; if you're using a standard instrument cable, you want that button pushed in so the signals are summed to mono.

from pages 14 & 15 of the 1995 Fly Handbook

[RMCasey]

yes... it's pushed in.

I tried it both ways as well.

Thanks,
Ryan

[vjmanzo]

Understood--okay, so if the Fishman preamp is lighting up and you're getting signal to pass through, that's a good sign that the preamp is working.

If I had to bet, I'd bet that there's something wrong with either the jack or the pot, but my money's on the jack. Can you take a look inside and see if it looks like one of these:

[RMCasey]

It's like the one on the left. Here is a picture.
Does the Fishman light stay on? It just gives me a single blink when I plug in.

[vjmanzo]

Thanks for this image.


No, the LED on the Fishman just blinks once when you plug it in, but will stay lit when the battery is dying. If you’re hearing the mags then the preamp is most likely working just fine, and what’s not working is just the piezo.

A little difficult to diagnose this, and I’m not an electronics expert by any means, so I’m hoping others will chime in. I assume you’ve checked for any lose anythings? I’ll also just mention, since you likely already know: the Flex PCB is delicate at this age, so take extra care as we move forward since it can tear easily.

The parasite plug was an early kluge Ken designed to pass a ground signal through the jack in order to help discretize the mag and piezo signals; it was novel at the time, but, as you can see in the other half of my previous image, they later ditched the parasite plug once the jack they originally used became a more widely available catalog item. So if I had to localize the problem area I think it’s there.

Sorry to not be so helpful in this post, but I’m sure others can help provide some clarity here.

[RMCasey]

Thanks so much for the input! I keep learning more about this... hopefully will find the culprit soon!

[RMCasey]

Thanks so much for the input! I keep learning more about this... hopefully will find the culprit soon!

[vjmanzo]

Did you see this thread, @RMCasey?

[RMCasey]

Yes... actually I think this is the thread that led me here. My only concern is that changing to a "non stock" wiring system will hurt the value of the guitar. On the other hand... non working Piezo is already doing that right? I'd prefer to find my way back to "original equipment" shape.

[vjmanzo]

Understood and since your flex PCB is probably okay, I suppose the easiest thing to test/swap is that second toggle switch. If it were me, I’d start with that.

[RMCasey]

OK... So I brought it to a local repair shop to have them diagnose the Parker. This is a very reputable shop and the tech owned a fly and has worked on them before. As I mentioned before that the magnetics work but the output was very thin before bring it in. He noticed this as well and was able to get this fixed so the magnetics are now normal. The Piezos still will not work. His suspicion is that it is the preamp. I know I mentioned that the second switch was the likely suspect (from what I've read here) but he did not mention that in the diagnosis. I will bring that back up again tomorrow.

Is there a line on a replacement preamp if that is the problem? He is testing the Piezos tomorrow.

[vjmanzo]

Sounds like good progress, @RMCasey.

Yes, if the piezo preamp is indeed the problem, you can use the existing piezo saddle elements with the Fishman Powerchip (Rev 2) or even the Graphtech Ghost Preamp.

[RMCasey]

Thanks@vjmanzo

Just making sure I am choosing the right stuff....

Fishman- This looks like it has a pot attached... is this right?
PRO-PCH-002 https://www.fishman.com/portfolio/powerchip/

Graphtech
https://graphtech.com/collections/ghost ... preamp-kit

Is there a preference? I know the orgional was Fishman but the Graphtech looks more like what is in there now.

Please let me know what you think. That way I'm prepared when I talk to my tech.

Thanks so much!

[vjmanzo]

Happy to help, @RMCasey; yes, those are the correct links/options.

People here have strong opinions about their preferences in piezo preamps, so I’ll lead with a few facts: from 1993-2015, Flys came with one of three piezo preamp systems: the Fishman Flex PCB system you currently have, the Fishman Powerchip, or the Graph Tech Ghost System. There was a fourth piezo system made by RMC, which was only offered with Belew model Flys and Custom Shop models.

The latter systems require point-to-point wiring, so if the preamp in your Fly doesn’t work, in my opinion, there is no reason to retain the Flex PCB. If you can determine that the Flex PCB still works and that only the preamp is damaged, you can sell/trade the Flex with folks on this forum (in the Classifieds section) and likely elsewhere.

You can use the saddles you have (and their piezo elements) with any of these systems, though, in my opinion, the Graphtech sounds cleanest when paired with the Graphtech saddles. The Graphtech is the easiest to install (again: my opinion) and it’s a fine system. If you suspect that the individual saddle piezo elements may have failed, then the Graphtech is the way to go.

Otherwise, the Fishman Powerchip is what was used in the Refined Flys, and it’s also excellent. It’s slightly more complicated to install than the Graphtech, but your tech should be in familiar terrain, and we have wiring diagrams here for reference.

My personal opinion: I own a Fly with every piezo and saddle configuration, and, to me: they sound more similar than they do different, so if you have similar ears to mine then you’re good in that regard.

[RMCasey]

Thanks vjmanzo!

Retesting the piezo / magnetic switch just to make sure before we pull the plug on the old preamp. My hope was to keep all parts original... but... if they no longer make that preamp... a working one is better than a broken one right! Also still testing the piezos to make sure that the output is correct there and that isn't the problem. Waiting to hear back from Fishman to see what they should be reading. They look like they are working so far.

I am leaning toward graph-tech. Is it worth upgrading to graphtech saddles (piezos) to better match the new preamp... even if the existing ones are working?

I so much appreciate your help! There is no way to AB test this in a store so your experience and feedback are so helpfull!!!!

[vjmanzo]

Not a problem, @RMCasey; happy to help! We've all been in your position in one way or another, and it's not easy to get all of the information to inform these decisions.

As I've mentioned, people here have their own preferences about the piezo systems they prefer, so this is my personal opinion: if this were my instrument, I'd wire the instrument point-to-point, install the Fishman Powerchip, and use the existing saddles. If the saddles on your Fly are working properly, me personally: I'd leave them as-is and just try to find a pre-amp that will interface with them. I have heard that people using the original saddles with the Graph Tech preamp have noticed an increased level of noise, but I don't have this particular combination on any of my Flys, so I can't say for sure nor are there any data out there to confirm the difference in noise floors with that combination.

If you were considering pursuing MIDI implementation with this Fly anyway, then the Graph Tech (preamp and saddles) is a great way to go because you just buy an additional module (the Hexpander, I believe) and you're good to go.

[RMCasey]

Great info...

So looking at the diagram for wiring the Fishman powerchip... it looks like:

1. You loose the master volume. To me that's not a big deal and can be adjusted at the amp. Do you just put a dummy knob/pot where the old one was so you don't have a hole? Anyone try a killswitch here utilizing the hole in the guitar for something?

2. As VJ mentioned... no tone on the Piezos... however many say they don't miss it from what I am reading.

Are these are the only two differences form the pre-refined controls?

What about the red "stereo" button? Does that still work or do you have to replace the output jack with one of the "smart" jacks?